Mass Combat.

[Joker]

Hello,

I've haven't been too involved in the evolution of 4e but I was wondering if there were any books already out or coming out that deal with Mass Combat in the way of 2e Combat & Tactics?

 

[hailstop]

I doubt it. When you come down to it, Mass Combat focuses on things other than the PC's, which 4e definitely is not about. Basically mass combat comes down to: "whatever the DM wants to happen, then the PC's have their little part, which somehow critically affects the outcome".

Kinda like the seige of Minas Tirith. Mass combat occured, it looked bad, then the side quest that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas completed turned the tide. Meanwhile Eowyn and Merry kill the Witch King while Pippin and Gandalf (who obviously had multiclassed into Warlord) fought a few battles during the seige.

It was the PC's actions that carried victory, not the mass combat. That just provided a backdrop for the PC heroics.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I doubt it. When you come down to it, Mass Combat focuses on things other than the PC's, which 4e definitely is not about. Basically mass combat comes down to: "whatever the DM wants to happen, then the PC's have their little part, which somehow critically affects the outcome".

Kinda like the seige of Minas Tirith. Mass combat occured, it looked bad, then the side quest that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas completed turned the tide. Meanwhile Eowyn and Merry kill the Witch King while Pippin and Gandalf (who obviously had multiclassed into Warlord) fought a few battles during the seige.

It was the PC's actions that carried victory, not the mass combat. That just provided a backdrop for the PC heroics.

Which is how a good heroic rpg should work if you ask me. Mass combat has never realy worked very well in D&D no matter what the rules.
It should be all about the main characters doing stuff that makes the crucial difference in the battle...

 

[malraux]

Anyone who has Heroes of Battle, would the mechanics in there port over with no problem?

 

[Sir Brennen]

The model presented in 3E's Heroes of Battle is probably usable in 4E as well, treating a battle or seige as an abstract dungeon, with set encounters the PCs have to get through to affect the outcome of the battle.

As for rules to actually run the clashing of armys in anything resembling a combat encounter... don't count on it.

edit: Doh! I don't know if I was ninja'd or if I'm just psychic...

 

[Morrus]

I wrote this for 3E, but it should work just fine for 4E since it's not rules dependent.

 

[Derren]

Considering that monsters in 4E are limited to fight PCs and not intended to fight other monsters I don't expect any mass combat system for 4E.

 

[Shroomy]

Anyone who has Heroes of Battle, would the mechanics in there port over with no problem?

I think that the VP system for determining the outcome of a mass battle easily ports to 4e, and I expect to see something like it in future 4e supplements.

BTW, WoTC already kind of modelled an admittedly small-scale mass combat situation using the skill challenge system in the Dungeon adventure "Sea Reavers of the Shrouded Crags."

 

[Arnwyn]

Mass combat has never realy worked very well in D&D no matter what the rules.

My experience has proven this statement to be demonstrably false.

 

[Jhaelen]

My experience has proven this statement to be demonstrably false.

And what rules did you use that proved the statement false?