Massive Open Content SRD

[woodelf]

Read it again. If you use some method (beyond section 15) to identify where the OGC is from , and you do not have permission, then you are violating the license.

from the OGL[/b]]
2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

...and...

from the OGL][/b]
7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

...and...

from the OGL][/b]
11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.

OK, either you're reading something that isn't there, or you're gonna have to spell it out for me. The parts you quoted, and particularly the bit you emphasized, seem to support my position, not yours. You specifically bolded the bit that says you can't indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any [registered] trademark. It doesn't say anything about indicating compatibility or co-adaptability with anything else--just trademarks. [It also says you can't use PI, but that's a blanket prohibition--the bit about compatibility is just emphasis.] Nothing in clause 7 says you can't say "compatible with Dynasties & Demagogues" [i just checked--the title isn't designated as PI, nor trademarked].

Now, on to the next bit: it says you can't use someone's name to market or advertise; it doesn't say you can't use someone's name. Marketing and advertising are not the sum total of things you can say within or about a work. Nothing in clause 11 prevents you from footnoting some text with a contributor's name (though clause 7 could stop you if the name were PI).

 

[woodelf]

And right there you've explained why it's not in my best interest to release free SRDs of my material. I have two reasons for writing and publishing game material:

1. I enjoy it.
2. It pays my bills.

That's it. If #2 is eliminated then I'll be moving on -- #2 is more important than #1. I'll either go back to another game company or return to corporate America (which is a lot more likely since the money is better).

Of course, part of that is that you're selling PDFs. The added value of the real thing is pretty minimal compared to a digital extract of the OGC--the closed content, of course, and then any prettying-up. Honestly, if I could get your content for free (legitimately--that is, if you had chosen to give it away), I'm not sure i'd buy your PDFs, either. Though i still might, on principle. I understand that i "vote with my dollars" when i buy stuff, so i'll sometimes buy stuff that i don't have to, because that seems like the only tway to encourage companies to keep doing what i want them to. So, frex, i bought OtE2 precisely *because* they had done nothing that made it "necessary" to "upgrade" if you already had OtE1. IOW, i bought it precisely *because* there was no reason to buy it. And i want more RPG publishers to do new editions like that.

Anyway, back to the OGC extracts of published books: i suspect the dynamic would be significantly different for print publications. The simple fact that it's a physical book has some value, and so i suspect at least some would still buy the book even if they could get the OGC for free. Not to mention, in a lot of D20 System stuff, the OGC is a noticable subset of tthe whole--it's likely that a significant part of what you want in most d20 System books wouldn't be in an OGC extract, anyway. And, of course, there're still those of us who would see having part of the content of a book available in digital form as an added value, for which they are willing to pay. IOW, buy the book (in preference to another) precisely because the content is also available for free in digital form. In the hopes that more publishers would follow suit.

 

[Mark]

OK, either you're reading something that isn't there, or you're gonna have to spell it out for me. The parts you quoted, and particularly the bit you emphasized, seem to support my position, not yours. You specifically bolded the bit that says you can't indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any [registered] trademark. (You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark) It doesn't say anything about indicating compatibility or co-adaptability with anything else--just trademarks. [It also says you can't use PI, but that's a blanket prohibition--the bit about compatibility is just emphasis.] Nothing in clause 7 says you can't say "compatible with Dynasties & Demagogues" [i just checked--the title isn't designated as PI, nor trademarked].

Just because you do not use the actual name that is trademarked doesn't mean that you can overtly alude to a trademark with a wink and a nod and expect to get away with it, especially given the language of the OGL. Check with your attorney.

Now, on to the next bit: it says you can't use someone's name to market or advertise; it doesn't say you can't use someone's name. Marketing and advertising are not the sum total of things you can say within or about a work. Nothing in clause 11 prevents you from footnoting some text with a contributor's name (though clause 7 could stop you if the name were PI).

Of course it is a violation. While you might be able to do so in a non-OGL work, you give up certain rights to utilize the OGL and one of those is using the name of an author (beyond the section 15 if it is in there, or elsewhere with their permission) to tie your work to another, and footnoting would be a way of doing that even if it is buried within the actual work. There is no limitation to how they suggest one might market or advertise and certainly "footnoting" would fall under that for the purposes of the OGL since it's sole purpose is to tie your work (or a section of your work) with that of another. That's precisely the purpose of a footnote. Again, check with an attorney. (That's good advice for anyone who thinks along the lines of hedging their way around what the license allows or does not.) I have no doubt they would advise that you seek permission rather try and do such an end-around and risk a lawsuit or ramifications of a violation, especially since any violation could result in the inability to use the license in the future (or worse).

Look, woodelf, you like to play devil's advfocate and come late to the party. I know you used to like to argue minutia ad naseum on the ogl-listservers and I'm sure that on such lists where most people understood that was your self-chosen badge of honor it had some value. However, I won't keep arguing with you because I do not have the time to keep checking old threads to see if you've slipped in another, "No, it isn't" type response. My advice to anyone is to check with an attorney and not try to "out clever" the OGL and possibly land themself in a bad place legally. It isn't worth it to anyone. If people really want to take your advice and not check with an attorney I suppose there isn't much anyone can do to stop them.

 

[Darkness]

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.