Master crafter
- Thread starter B4cchus
- Start date
Rae ArdGaoth
Explorer
Whoops, I missed the caster levels. Usually they have their own separate column, they blended right in.
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Does this class require you to be a caster? Should it?
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Eldritch Crafter: Interesting ability, makes the Master Crafter very versatile. I note a few problems/omissions:
1. How many times per day can this ability be used? (I suggest it eats up a spell for the Master's spells per day of the appropriate spell level. Or maybe 2 spells, or spell level+1 or something, since it's so versatile. Or maybe not, since it's just used for crafting.)
2. What happens if it fails? Is XP lost, material components? (If you use my above suggestion, are the spell slot/s lost?)
3. The caster level required for many spells is different for different classes. How does Eldritch Crafter deal with that? (I suggest making the limit "The highest level that the Master Crafter can cast.")
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Imbue Item: Presumably, since this is only a temporary buff, this will be used by the Master Crafter for himself or for his party. I think you could simplify it a great deal, maybe...:
"The Master Crafter can imbue items with temporary magical properties. For each level of Master Crafter he has, he can add +1 point of magical ability to any armor or shield. For every two levels of Master Crafter, he can add +1 point of magical ability to any weapon. The items must be masterwork, but they need not have the usual +1 weapon enhancement bonus already. The points of ability may be used on one item or distributed among several. This ability can be used once per day per point of ability distributed, takes a full-round action per point of ability distributed, and lasts 24 hours. For example, a 3rd level Crafter can enchant a masterwork breastplate to be a +2 Breastplate with Light Fortification, or a masterwork longsword to be a Flaming Longsword and a +1 Light Steel Shield to be a +2 Light Steel Shield."
... Okay, I admit, my version's a bit confusing too.
Think about it, though. You might add the stipulation that the item being imbued must have been crafted by the Crafter.
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Does this class require you to be a caster? Should it?
----------------------
Eldritch Crafter: Interesting ability, makes the Master Crafter very versatile. I note a few problems/omissions:
1. How many times per day can this ability be used? (I suggest it eats up a spell for the Master's spells per day of the appropriate spell level. Or maybe 2 spells, or spell level+1 or something, since it's so versatile. Or maybe not, since it's just used for crafting.)
2. What happens if it fails? Is XP lost, material components? (If you use my above suggestion, are the spell slot/s lost?)
3. The caster level required for many spells is different for different classes. How does Eldritch Crafter deal with that? (I suggest making the limit "The highest level that the Master Crafter can cast.")
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Imbue Item: Presumably, since this is only a temporary buff, this will be used by the Master Crafter for himself or for his party. I think you could simplify it a great deal, maybe...:
"The Master Crafter can imbue items with temporary magical properties. For each level of Master Crafter he has, he can add +1 point of magical ability to any armor or shield. For every two levels of Master Crafter, he can add +1 point of magical ability to any weapon. The items must be masterwork, but they need not have the usual +1 weapon enhancement bonus already. The points of ability may be used on one item or distributed among several. This ability can be used once per day per point of ability distributed, takes a full-round action per point of ability distributed, and lasts 24 hours. For example, a 3rd level Crafter can enchant a masterwork breastplate to be a +2 Breastplate with Light Fortification, or a masterwork longsword to be a Flaming Longsword and a +1 Light Steel Shield to be a +2 Light Steel Shield."
... Okay, I admit, my version's a bit confusing too.
Think about it, though. You might add the stipulation that the item being imbued must have been crafted by the Crafter.
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Your new proposed writeup for the imbue item looks good and is in line with what i had in my mind.
I'll juggle around a bit with the wording and post it when i think it's good.
As for the eldritch crafter, i agree that using UMD could be a good change.
I don't want to limit the uses per day or require spell slots (since it is possible to emulate higher level spalls then he may actually cast.
I do want to limit the ability to items he crafts himself.
If the check fails he looses the day of crafting (effectively 100 craft points) but no xp and he can try again afterwards. Since the spell was not cast material components and xp for the spell are not lost.
I'll juggle around a bit with the wording and post it when i think it's good.
As for the eldritch crafter, i agree that using UMD could be a good change.
I don't want to limit the uses per day or require spell slots (since it is possible to emulate higher level spalls then he may actually cast.
I do want to limit the ability to items he crafts himself.
If the check fails he looses the day of crafting (effectively 100 craft points) but no xp and he can try again afterwards. Since the spell was not cast material components and xp for the spell are not lost.
Erekose13
Explorer
I've got a few comments and suggestions.
1. It needs flavor. I'll note that a few of my own proposals have suffered from that before, but I really think that you can take this opportunity to tie the class to something like a particular region or ancient art.
2. Need to document what +1 Spell Level means, does it apply to any caster? what about psionics?
3. Skill list, should it include the other primary caster knowledge skills (religion, nature, psionics)?
4. Bonus feat is at 2nd and 4th on the table but 3rd in the text. Which had you intended?
5. Enhancement lists only include DMG item enhancements not the psionic ones (which are in the SRD as well).
Its a great start and I see that you've made a number of drastic improvements already. Keep going cause you're on to something.
1. It needs flavor. I'll note that a few of my own proposals have suffered from that before, but I really think that you can take this opportunity to tie the class to something like a particular region or ancient art.
2. Need to document what +1 Spell Level means, does it apply to any caster? what about psionics?
3. Skill list, should it include the other primary caster knowledge skills (religion, nature, psionics)?
4. Bonus feat is at 2nd and 4th on the table but 3rd in the text. Which had you intended?
5. Enhancement lists only include DMG item enhancements not the psionic ones (which are in the SRD as well).
Its a great start and I see that you've made a number of drastic improvements already. Keep going cause you're on to something.
Im struggling a bit to add psionics in the mix. What do you guys think? Just add the psionic enhancements to the current list? Or make a seperate list for psionic enhancements (which might split the class in two, which i don't really like)?
Thanks for all the other comments! I'm intergrating them as wespeak type!
Thanks for all the other comments! I'm intergrating them as we
Rae ArdGaoth
Explorer
Psionics does need to be addressed. Making the caster progression caster/manifester would be appropriate, I think. I think making all psionic and magical abilities available to anyone is broken. Perhaps a requisite, such as "In order to imbue psionic abilities, the Crafter must have at least one psionic craft feat" and vice versa for magic. Not too many Crafters will be both magic and psionics users.
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Hi folks, I updated the proposal in the first post.
Changes made:
-Rewrite of the Imbue item ability. It now uses 'Imbue Points' and psionic powers are added.
-Added explanation to "+1 caster level"
-Corrected Bonus feat: the text is adjusted to reflect the table (bonus feat at 2nd and 4th).
-Added knowledge psionics and sue psionic device to the skill list.
I chose not to add knowledge religion/nature to the skill list.
Knowledge arcana and psionics are added because they cover magical/psionic items.
- added cerebral crafter to split eldritch crafter into magic and psionics.
Still to change:
Add flavour
Changes made:
-Rewrite of the Imbue item ability. It now uses 'Imbue Points' and psionic powers are added.
-Added explanation to "+1 caster level"
-Corrected Bonus feat: the text is adjusted to reflect the table (bonus feat at 2nd and 4th).
-Added knowledge psionics and sue psionic device to the skill list.
I chose not to add knowledge religion/nature to the skill list.
Knowledge arcana and psionics are added because they cover magical/psionic items.
- added cerebral crafter to split eldritch crafter into magic and psionics.
-> The required item creation feat automaticly dictates that you need to be a caster to get in.
Still to change:
Add flavour
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Rae ArdGaoth
Explorer
Imbue Item: Are there any weapon/armor abilities lower than +5 value that you've excluded? If so, for what reason? If not, you don't need the lists, just add a clause saying "No single ability worth more than +4 can be imbued in a weapon or armor." Also, I think weapon abilities should be twice as expensive as armor abilities in terms of Imbue Points. I'm open to persuasion, though, so give me your reasoning for changing that.
Eldritch Crafter/Cerebral Crafter: These abilities sound pretty fair to me, since they can only be used for crafting. I think there should be some kind of penalty for failing, though. The last sentence (the caster/manifester level requirement) is unclear to me.
Eldritch Crafter/Cerebral Crafter: These abilities sound pretty fair to me, since they can only be used for crafting. I think there should be some kind of penalty for failing, though. The last sentence (the caster/manifester level requirement) is unclear to me.
I agree that weapon abilities should be more expensive (they where in my origional writeup), so i'll change that. I'm unsure if they should be twice as expensive since a +2 at level 4 (min char level 9) isn't all too inpressive.
I didn't leave out abilities but i did translate some abilities that have a flat gp price to a +x bonus in the weapon/armor enhancements list.
The penalty for eldritch/cerebral crafter also got lost in the latest update. Origionally it meant a day of crafting lost, translated in 100 craft points.
I didn't leave out abilities but i did translate some abilities that have a flat gp price to a +x bonus in the weapon/armor enhancements list.
The penalty for eldritch/cerebral crafter also got lost in the latest update. Origionally it meant a day of crafting lost, translated in 100 craft points.
Rae ArdGaoth
Explorer
100 craft points is a hard hit, especially in a world where CP are relatively hard to come by. Speaking of CP, that's an interesting aspect that this class doesn't address. Should gaining levels in MC grant some additional CP? I think that would be reasonable.
On the +1 caster levels: I'm completely unfamiliar with the crafting rules, so I just took a look at them. It appears that all magic items require not just a spell, but a caster level. So taking this class really cripples a crafter, even at 5th level when he gets the eldritch/cerebral ability. That's completely against the flavor of the class, methinks. So I suggest either full caster progression or changing eldritch/cerebral to allow the crafter to emulate a higher caster level.
Or... here's a thought. A level 1 MC ability that allows the crafter to emulate a higher CL limited by his character level + his MC level. That way his MC levels count double, or if he's split between two casting classes he can compensate for the level loss. This way he gets a high CL for crafting purposes only, and the spell progression doesn't have to change.
Imbue Item: I agree, +2 weapon bonus is unimpressive. But it's a very versatile weapon bonus. I mean, normally if a character has a flaming longsword and goes up against a fire creature, he's kinda screwed unless he buys a new, very expensive, weapon. If the MC plays his cards right, he can have a ice weapon or a fire weapon or a holy weapon or... whatever. He can't have a brilliant energy weapon, but those are pretty powerful.
Maybe changing the number of times per day it can be used would help compensate, trading power for versatility. Otherwise, making weapon abilities cost 1.5x as much is just complicated.
On the +1 caster levels: I'm completely unfamiliar with the crafting rules, so I just took a look at them. It appears that all magic items require not just a spell, but a caster level. So taking this class really cripples a crafter, even at 5th level when he gets the eldritch/cerebral ability. That's completely against the flavor of the class, methinks. So I suggest either full caster progression or changing eldritch/cerebral to allow the crafter to emulate a higher caster level.
Or... here's a thought. A level 1 MC ability that allows the crafter to emulate a higher CL limited by his character level + his MC level. That way his MC levels count double, or if he's split between two casting classes he can compensate for the level loss. This way he gets a high CL for crafting purposes only, and the spell progression doesn't have to change.
Imbue Item: I agree, +2 weapon bonus is unimpressive. But it's a very versatile weapon bonus. I mean, normally if a character has a flaming longsword and goes up against a fire creature, he's kinda screwed unless he buys a new, very expensive, weapon. If the MC plays his cards right, he can have a ice weapon or a fire weapon or a holy weapon or... whatever. He can't have a brilliant energy weapon, but those are pretty powerful.
Maybe changing the number of times per day it can be used would help compensate, trading power for versatility. Otherwise, making weapon abilities cost 1.5x as much is just complicated.
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