Matt Colville's Community

[TwoSix]

I don't know. I knew someone who treated every discussion as a debate. And if you think getting ignored and told to leave/take it somewhere else the moment you post something because everyone is exhausted by the thought of engaging with you is productive, then we have very different definitions.

I think the ideas I've elucidated in the last few posts speak for themselves, but if you've come to the conclusion my idea is unreasonable, then I may have to revisit them.

The point I was trying to make originally is that discussion is about learning. Learning how and why people disagree with you is productive. Discussion that's simply reinforcing that you do disagree with someone else is not productive.

At the same time, a lot of book circles has been has been productive because it made me see the book in new light, I got some really good food from that evenings host, and just had an excellent time with friends.

Fair. I wouldn't generally classify an evening out as productive, but that's simply my own semantic/contextual preferences. A discussion where you got fresh ideas about a book you've read is something I would certainly call "productive", though.

 

[TiQuinn]

Talking about how your favorite pizza is pineapple, and the other person’s is pepperoni might be a fun conversation and exchange of biographical information, but also isn’t really what I would call productive.

I think in the context of a community not all conversation is going to be about the product itself. There's always tangents, discussions of related media, and there's almost always a general chit chat space that can be about anything. I wouldn't call those places unproductive either. They help foster a spirit of community which, in and of itself, is a good thing, even if they are not discussing Draw Steel or D&D or whatever the system is directly.

 

[TwoSix]

I think in the context of a community not all conversation is going to be about the product itself. There's always tangents, discussions of related media, and there's almost always a general chit chat space that can be about anything. I wouldn't call those places unproductive either. They help foster a spirit of community which, in and of itself, is a good thing, even if they are not discussing Draw Steel or D&D or whatever the system is directly.

Well, sure. Any one discussion or other type of content might be unproductive on its own merits, but still enjoyable, and thus the discussion is productive in the larger context of establishing the community.

Like, if I buy a car that doesn't run for $50, the car as a car is obviously unproductive, because it doesn't do the purpose of a car, which is to get me places. But if sell it for scrap for $500, the purchase of the car was obviously productive, because I made money out of it, even though the car itself wasn't productive.

 

[A_Carrington]

bbbm be b

Sure. But if you are trying to be part of a community, maybe concentrating too much on criticism does more harm than good.

And maybe it doesn't. Wow, vacuous platitudes are both fun and easy, and since they communicate no information, no one can be offended by them! No wonder we prefer them to saying anything meaningful at all.

 

[A_Carrington]

I think this is common in many "artists". I have a family member who is a great artist, but they refuse to "sell themselves" thinking their art should speak for itself and people should flock to them. As you may have guessed, they are not a financially successful artist.

Criticism can be good. There are many ways of and type of criticism.

Always is, rather.

 

[LordEntrails]

Always is, rather.

No, that's stupid.
And useless criticism of your point.

 

[SteveC]

And maybe it doesn't. Wow, vacuous platitudes are both fun and easy, and since they communicate no information, no one can be offended by them! No wonder we prefer them to saying anything meaningful at all.

I think that Matt's point is that if you're part of a community, it's because you like the thing. If you get too negative about it, you can hurt the community you like. And if you're not part of the community or don't like something, it's not going to be useful.

There's a thread right now about Mike Mearls and saving throws and boss monsters. I have some definite opinions on the subject, but I'm not going into it because I don't play 5.5E and the saving throw system is something that I'd be super negative about. And I don't think that would be helpful and would likely end up with me just arguing with a lot of people who enjoy it. If and when I get into 5.5E I'll be glad to discuss it with the caveat of how to address these issues, so we'll see how it goes in a year or two.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

So, while you think you are giving a single, mild criticism of WotC, to them you are part of THE WALL of criticism of WotC they are exposed to overall. And that criticism generally bleeds into at least implied criticism of the fans as well. They think of your input as part of the pages upon pages of them being yelled at, by people telling them they are wrongity-wrong-wrong, with wrong sauce, for liking the thing you are criticizing.

And WotC is only an example - this isn't actually about WotC - the point generalizes. If you are talking to a fan of X, and you want to criticize X, it pays to think about how you are going to approach that.

OK, so what's the answer? Shut down the message board or decide that some people screaming are allowed to do effectively do so? Because there are 100% people in every online community, including a bunch of people on this one, who have decided that they're allowed to scream at people and do so on many threads. They're often the only people other than one poor sucker who doesn't come here very often and doesn't understand what's happening posting in the last dozen pages of a thread.

I get it, interpersonal stuff is hard and people's social tanks get filled up. But these are grown adults posting here. They shouldn't be allowed to say "well, I'm morally right, so I and my buddies are going to ruin this stranger's day."

 

[Zaukrie]

I highly recommend the ignore or mute feature to everyone. My life is much better here and elsewhere because of it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I highly recommend the ignore or mute feature to everyone. My life is much better here and elsewhere because of it.

It is useful and I've used it to mute the toxic people on all sides here. But that also means that newbies wander in, get jumped by those folks, and fewer people can see what's going on and report it to the moderators.