Matt Colville's Community

[Gradine]

No matter how much some would love for it be otherwise the case, language is deeply, deeply personal. It is rooted in history, culture, family, and individual experience. Any attempt to pursue what any specific word can, should, or does mean is inherently going to be significantly more fruitless than the ideas behind those words.

"We need a common vocabulary in order to-" no, you don't. You want a common vocabulary. What you need is understanding, as in what the other person means when they say the word they say, and you don't need them to say the words you want them to say in order to do that.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Maybe. Ultimately, language gonna language.

You'd think so. But language and language are not synonyms either. Common mistake.

 

[Older Beholder]

-

 

[definiteFreakyFishGuy]

Sorry, a bit late to the conversation.

Overall, I thought this was a very thought provoking video, and I found myself spending a lot of time this week thinking about what Mr. Colville said. Some of what he said landed well, some not so much. It made me think a lot about what community means to me, and how I used to conflate community, friendship, and people I do hobbies with.

One thing that stood out in Colville's definition of community is the "emotional regulation" bit. It has definitely been my experience that in the groups I was part of, the ones that caused most friction were the most passionate ones. In my DND group, the player that almost imploded our group was the most passionate player—they spent the most number of hours working on their character, researching the lore, and talking to the GM about the campaign. That said, it did come off as a bit too exclusionary—maybe he said this and I just don't remember, but I'd want to allow some room for community members to make mistakes and grow (as much as one could tolerate) rather than exclude them outright.

Finally, I felt totally called out when Colville mentioned people spend way too much time talking about what they dislike than what they like. I agree that it's probably healthier to talk about the things I like rather than things I dislike. That said, I feel tremendous satisfaction when I find people hating on something I also dislike, and I'm guessing I am not alone. (That said, I have blocked a number of folks that I found super obnoxious...)

 

[Bae'zel]

One barrier to pleasant discourse is that for some, banter and teasing are casual and normal and not intended to be mean-spirited. However, some folks who were bullied a great deal in the past, or who have been in verbally abusive relationships don't react well to that. People can get defensive and lash back (at worst) or flee the conversation, no longer contributing.

It may not be the intention, but when someone ridicules a post of mine, or gives me an unecessarily harsh response, I just put them on ignore, potentially cutting myself off of future interactions, even positive ones.

Not much people can do about this as no one wants to walk on eggshells. But it might be helpful to know that if you poke fun at someone, it can just happen to be the last straw in a string of trauma flashbacks that can make the target shut down, lash out or deem you ignorable forever. No big loss for some, of course (I doubt anyone whom I've put on ignore laments my absence, if anything, they're probably happier).

 

[payn]

I'd also like to note that putting a smiley/wink/tongue out emoticon doesn't make up for you being a jerk in your postings.

 

[Umbran]

One barrier to pleasant discourse is that for some, banter and teasing are casual and normal and not intended to be mean-spirited.

Getting into banter and teasing with someone you do not know, and cannot see or hear to know their reaction, is just terribly unwise. If you cannot otherwise prove that you actually care, teasing/mocking is an aggressive action, not a pleasant casual one.

Not much people can do about this as no one wants to walk on eggshells.

There's plenty of space between, "actively teasing" and "walking on eggshells" in which to live.

 

[Bae'zel]

There's plenty of space between, "actively teasing" and "walking on eggshells" in which to live.

Well I agree but I was anticipating backlash in advance. Asking people to be kind by default is... too much for some, I've learned the hard way.

 

[SteveC]

One barrier to pleasant discourse is that for some, banter and teasing are casual and normal and not intended to be mean-spirited. However, some folks who were bullied a great deal in the past, or who have been in verbally abusive relationships don't react well to that. People can get defensive and lash back (at worst) or flee the conversation, no longer contributing.

I think this is a really good point. What's also important is that gaming has quite a number of neurodivergent folks (trust me, I gamed in the 70s and we didn't know what to call it then), so there can be issues where someone might completely innocently not understand how what they are saying comes off.

I have a bunch of people who I joke around with here, and sometimes we talk smack (hey, I love 4E so I wear the red letter) and that's fine. It's fine because we have years of history of talking about all sorts of things. But someone who doesn't know that might take offense.

I think it's really best to ask for clarification, as in "did you mean X?" and much of the time you'll get a "good heavens no!" response. I think I'd recommend assuming something just didn't come across in the language unless I see a really pattern of activity. And, unfortunately, we have some of those folks here (and that's just my opinion, of course). I am rethinking my own practice of just hitting the ignore button as this means I won't be able to report something that person might say to someone new to the site.

I know that sometimes I have come across as ... grumpy ... let's say that. And if someone asks about it, I'll certainly apologize and clarify comments because we're all here to talk about things we love, right?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I haven't watched it (and I don't have an hour to spare as it's nearly 11pm and I need to go to bed!) but yes--this is a fundamental concept, especially in online spaces. I've been saying it for 25 years, and I still struggle with people who just threadcrap constantly with negativity. And here it's pretty good--places like Facebook and other mainstream social media platforms (gasp, YouTube!) are awful for it, to the point of toxicity.

So yeah. Talk about the stuff you like. Not only does that make things more pleasant for everybody else, you'll find you probably enjoy the experience more, too.

Yup. I recently (finally) learned that lesson the hard way. Still wish I had before I took it too far. Lots of conversations I wish I could still contribute to.