Max melee damage at 1st level - core vs. non-core

[Thurbane]

Some excellent input here, but how about some non-core suggestions?

 

[kerbarian]

Exotic weapon proficiency requires a +1 BAB.

Oops, didn't check that one. You could always just go with a dwarf cleric, though, and use the waraxes that way. Dwarven cleric with two waraxes, strength and destruction domains, buffed with enlarge person, divine favor, and 2x magic weapon (2nd one via scribe scroll). Main hand is 16 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 24. Off-hand is 16 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 20. Total max damage is 24*3 + 20*3 = 132. Not quite as good as with an orc, but I think it's still the highest core damage so far.

 

[kerbarian]

Some excellent input here, but how about some non-core suggestions?

I mentioned a few, and non-core can clearly get at least somewhat higher damage for this test. In general, though, 1st level isn't where you'll see the big difference between core and non-core.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oops, didn't check that one. You could always just go with a dwarf cleric, though, and use the waraxes that way. Dwarven cleric with two waraxes, strength and destruction domains, buffed with enlarge person, divine favor, and 2x magic weapon (2nd one via scribe scroll). Main hand is 16 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 24. Off-hand is 16 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 20. Total max damage is 24*3 + 20*3 = 132. Not quite as good as with an orc, but I think it's still the highest core damage so far.

The dwarf cleric can't have both the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat and the Scribe Scroll feat.

Remember, Familiarity doesn't give free proficiency.

-Hyp.

 

[kerbarian]

The dwarf cleric can't have both the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat and the Scribe Scroll feat.

Remember, Familiarity doesn't give free proficiency.

The idea is that he wields the waraxes as nonproficient martial weapons (since we don't care about attack penalties). "A dwarf treats a dwarven waraxe as a martial weapon even when using it in one hand." Is there any reason that wouldn't work?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The idea is that he wields the waraxes as nonproficient martial weapons (since we don't care about attack penalties).

Hmm.

Interesting question. If it's too large to wield in one hand without special training, does it matter whether the special training you don't have is the EWP or MWP feat?

-Hyp.

 

[kerbarian]

Hmm.

Interesting question. If it's too large to wield in one hand without special training, does it matter whether the special training you don't have is the EWP or MWP feat?

I don't think the special training required is necessarily a weapon proficiency -- just being a dwarf is sufficient. The description says that "A dwarven waraxe is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon." It also says that dwarves treat the (one-handed) waraxe as martial rather than exotic, implying that dwarves either already have or don't need the special training.

More specifically:

a dwarven waraxe requires special training for one-handed use (A) -> a dwarven waraxe is an exotic, one-handed weapon (B)

a dwarven waraxe is wielded by a dwarf (C) -> a dwarven waraxe is a martial, one-handed weapon (D)

C implies D (more specifically, C implies that D can be "treated as" true), and D implies not-B. Since A implies B, not-B implies not-A. Therefore C implies not-A, and a dwarven waraxe doesn't require special training when wielded by a dwarf (again, more specifically, a dwarf can treat the waraxe as if it didn't require special training).

 

[Wavestone]

Hmm.. interesting thread. I wonder just how much one can increase the potential max damage just by using a lvl 2 character? I guess by quite an amount. Orc Brb1/Clr1 with the mentioned cleric/scythe setup, this time raging as well? (Just to mention an example) Or some other combo?

Sorry if I stepped on your toes, Thurbane.. Perhaps that could be the topic of the next thread?

I see a lot more core stuff - and I'm not too surprised. More or less everyone has access to the core books, but not everyone has all non-core books. Plus, it is easier when there isnt such a huge amount of choices as non-core is...

 

[KarinsDad]

Come on guys! We can do better than this.

This is a ranged weapon max as opposed to a melee weapon max.


First level Fighter. Max 240 GP.

Hires 1200 Mercenaries for the day. Gives each of them a free club.

Each of them can do 12 points of damage with a critical by throwing the club. The Fighter can do this as well.

Max damage per round = 14,412 points of damage


Granted, only a max of 248 mercaneries can attack a given medium foe (assuming they surround him and none are within 10 feet for AoOs, but all are within 50 feet).

Average damage per round per surrounded foe (assuming a high AC opponent where a 20 is needed to hit) = 78.12

Average damage per round per surrounded foe (assuming a high AC opponent where a 20 is needed and DR 5 of the foe) = 16.12

Instant sushi of anyone who comes close.


Melee weapons. Hire 19 Orc Mercenaries with 22 Str each. Give 8 of them clubs. Give the Fighter, also an Orc with 22 Str, and the other 11 Mercenaries Longspears.

8 Mercenaries run up and surround foe, each doing 24 points of damage on a critical.

Everyone else attacks with a Longspear from 10 feet away for 42 points of damage.

They all Power Attack.

8 * 26 + 12 * 45 = 748 points of damage.

(And yes, the Fighter could be a Cleric, Enlarge himself, attack from 15 feet away, get another mercenary, yadda, yadda, yadda)


Ok, all of this breaks OPs new rule #4, but it is core.

 

[Quartz]

Are the apprentice rules core? An apprentice cleric / barbarian or barbarian / bard could be fun.