Maximum Hit Points

[Starbuck_II]

If you give a monster its maximum hitpoints, does that change its Challenge Rating (CR)?

Yeah, at minimum CR +1 I believe.
Think about it:
For a level 1 warrior (1d8) that is a free toughness feat (+3 hps).
For a Level 2 Warrior: (2d8) you gave 2 toughnesses.

For Mages/Adepts you gave 1 or 2 points (1.5 is hard to add). But since they have so little, that is very helpful.

Undead/Dragons/demons gain 5 or more points.

So yeah, it deserves +1 CR.

 

[drothgery]

Hmm... if we are generating stats by rolling, I'll check them and besides I really wouldn't want to play with fellows who cheat on their dice rolls.

Is it really cheating for the DM to tell the second-level fighter that yes, he can re-roll a one on a hit die roll (either 'just this once' or due to an explicit house rule)? To decide an above-average roll on a die that fell off the table or landed slightly off-balance is okay, but a below-average roll needs to be rerolled? To decide that a die the size of your hit die that you tossed just after leveling up was just random dice rolling, not rolling for the next level's hit points, when it came up poorly?

Nobody really thinks this is cheating, and it happens all the time.

 

[Crothian]

Unless stats and HP are rolled in front of rat-bastard DMs who watch their players like a hawk, you will almost certainly end up with better than statistically average results, unless you're playing with a bunch of lawful good players.

I must play with a lot of LG players then because we've had our share of low HPs and attributes. I remember one rouge with an 8 strength and 6 con. We had a guy playing a ranger who never rolled higher then a 3 for hit points for levels 3-8.

I'm sure I've had players cheat a little here and there but for the most part I doubt it.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yeah, at minimum CR +1 I believe.
Think about it:
For a level 1 warrior (1d8) that is a free toughness feat (+3 hps).
For a Level 2 Warrior: (2d8) you gave 2 toughnesses.

So yeah, it deserves +1 CR.

So... You're saying 1 feat is worth +1 CR?

Interesting.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Well, depends on the feat.

Like a Power Attack can improve as you level. (ability to deal more damage)
Nymph's Kiss increases skill points/every level so that is worth it.

Improve Toughness as well.

If the feat improves as you level definately.

The max hp rule improves by level.

Now a weak feat like Dodge is hard to argue +1 CR, but then again if used a preq for a bettr feat maybe.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Well, depends on the feat.

Like a Power Attack can improve as you level. (ability to deal more damage)
Nymph's Kiss increases skill points/every level so that is worth it.

Improve Toughness as well.

If the feat improves as you level definately.

The max hp rule improves by level.

Now a weak feat like Dodge is hard to argue +1 CR, but then again if used a preq for a bettr feat maybe.

So when a 1st level goblin fighter chooses his bonus feat, depending on what he chooses, he might actually be CR2?

And if he's a 2nd level goblin fighter, depending on what feat he chooses at 2nd level, he might actually be CR4?

Interesting.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you give a monster its maximum hitpoints, does that change its Challenge Rating (CR)?

Why?

Wouldn't you be better off giving it more Hit Dice (and therefore improve all stats)?

 

[Starbuck_II]

So when a 1st level goblin fighter chooses his bonus feat, depending on what he chooses, he might actually be CR2?

And if he's a 2nd level goblin fighter, depending on what feat he chooses at 2nd level, he might actually be CR4?

Interesting.

That was techincally the idea behind Fighter being worth more CR than Warrior.
Feats can matter.
The problem is not all feats are strong enough to do so.
Then again, some are stronger.

 

[kitsune9]

Maybe

I think it would depend on the monster and abilities.

I would agree. For a spellcaster type, if you give more hp, it will have a little bit of staying power, but for a brute type, maximum hp can almost be double its hp. If the brute deals high damage relatively easy, then essentially its staying power is going to last twice as long which at certain levels, can really mean life or death for the party, particularly if you chose a brute as BBEG and use them toward a final encounter where they have a CR higher than the party level.

 

[Crothian]

Why?

Wouldn't you be better off giving it more Hit Dice (and therefore improve all stats)?

Sometimes a DM might want to increase hit dice. But other times it is nice and simple to just give more hit points. The monster get as a little more staying power but doesn't really become a bigger threat. Plus it is a lot easier to do on the fly.