Maximum skill results?

[Kahuna Burger]

Looking at the diplomacy thread, a lot of people were putting their foot down at "how far diplomacy can take you". No matter how diplomatic you are, you cannot X. One poster made comparisons to the bluff skill.

Now I agree with that attitude to a large extent, but I've only seen it applied to social skills. In a long off thread I made a similar comment about tracking, and it was met with great consernation. So in the interest of fair application of skills, a few "maximums". Add, refute or challange as you see nessasary, but double standards between the skills you like to use and the "annoying" ones will be noted.

There is no diplomacy check high enough to have a arch lich hand over his power.

There is no bluff check high enough to convince a person looking at a blue sky that it is in fact green.

There is no hide check high enough to hide in a bare, featureless, round room with a central light source.

There is no move silently check high enough to move at normal speed in platemail right behind an alert guard.

There is no survival tracking check high enough to know who passed a week ago when yesterday 30 head of cattle were driven over this road in the rain.

I'll stop now so I don't lose this to a computer freeze...

Kahuna Burger

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

1.There is no diplomacy check high enough to have a arch lich hand over his power.

2.There is no bluff check high enough to convince a person looking at a blue sky that it is in fact green.

3.There is no hide check high enough to hide in a bare, featureless, round room with a central light source.

4.There is no move silently check high enough to move at normal speed in platemail right behind an alert guard.

5.There is no survival tracking check high enough to know who passed a week ago when yesterday 30 head of cattle were driven over this road in the rain.

1. No, not a bluff check. You might persuade him to let you cast a spell on him "just to really appreciate it", but handing over his power would require more an unearthly Diplomacy check.
2. Agrred.
3. Not without magic or a special class ability, no.
4. Disagree. You'd have to be well into the Epic levels, but it's theoretically possible.
5. Again, possible if you were the highest of Epic level rangers.

Here are some of mine:
6. There is no Balance check high enough to let you walk on clouds, because it's not a matter of Balance, you are simply too heavy to do it!
7. There is no Craft check high enough to create a magical item.
8. There is no ride check high enough to make your horse take you deliberately inside a collosal foe's mouth.

 

[Utrecht]

I guess in a lot of ways it comes down to whether you want the natural to immitate the supernatural and how cinematic you want your games to be.

There are numerous examples in modern movies of characters performing amazing stunts - why not PC's?

In my games - anything is possible - you roll well enough you accomplish it.

So using the examples below:

Sure you can try to balance on that cloud - but I am going to give you a -40 on the check.

Sure you can make you horse go into the foes mouth - this one is a -15 (after all there are numerous historical references to riding horses into active artillery bombardments)

Sure you can attempt to pursuade the Lich -60 to the check.

That being said, I agree that no matter how skilled you are in craft - you can't create a magical weapon - you could create a device that emulated a magical device though.

Again, I think that the D&D game is such that it supports PC's attempting these types of stunts - but you as the DM need to assign realistic modifiers to reflect the circumstances.

 

[alsih2o]

8. There is no ride check high enough to make your horse take you deliberately inside a collosal foe's mouth.

if you and the horse have known each other a while and get along there is nothing the horse will not do if asked.

i have seen men who ride horses off 60 foot cliffs, and another who rides his through a burning wall. a horse cedes its will to you the minute you get in the saddle, or you are just some schmuck strapped to a beast bigger than you.

 

[Mistwell]

Skills should not be less effective than spells of equivelent level and devotion.

What I mean by this is that you shouldn't be able to do more with a 9th level spell than you could do (in that field) with, say, a 90 check with a skill.

The spellcaster has devoted pretty much everything to getting to that level of power. If a character devotes that same amount of time and effort and lost opportunities for other abilities to a skill, it should seem just as incredible as a spell.

I see no reason why people's ability to suspend disbelief is challenged when it comes to skill use, but not spell use or sword use. This is a high fantasy game. High fantasy doesn't just mean high magic, it means amazing things across the board. Indiana jones is able to climb beneath the rapidly moving truck and come out the back to kill the bad guys...and he does it with a high skill check, not magic. The Tomb Raider is able to leap off a tall building using just tiny bat-like gliders, and survive the fall due to her skill with those crazy things.

And yes, your rogue is able to convince someone that the sky is really green, it's just a trick of the light that makes it seem blue, but if you look juuuust right...see, the sky really is green!

And yes, the Lich can be persuaded that their stated goals will not really gain them the satisfaction they are looking for in undeath, that there is a better, more fulfillng way. That everlasting life will be more self-actualizing if they change their goal to something else.

YOU cannot do these things...but your character, who is incredible in ways you and I have never even thought of or seen in real life, THEY can do these things...and they know how.

 

[Cedric]

There is no bluff check high enough to convince a person looking at a blue sky that it is in fact green.

I disagree...

It's a two man con, or three to work it best, but if you are super slick you might could pull it off with one person.

The setup:

Dang, are you alright man? You look horrible, course, after last night who wouldn't. Still..you look like you have definitely seen better days. You seem to be moving around ok though, so you have to be better off then the others.

When the "mark" sounds confused and tries to ask clarifying questions, seem surprised, then go...Oh...temporary short term memory loss, makes sense I guess, pretty tramatic night.

The pitch:

So, what do you think about everything that's been happening? I mean, the light's, the explosions all of those things in the sky. Was that weird or not? Just go on, without handing out any details, like it's a fact, it happened last night and the world is a changed place now.

The sell:

Do you think the sky will change back? I mean, this is going to be really hard to get used too. The skies been blue my whole life and now this?!? *points up*. When the mark seems incredulous or doesn't seem to understand, act like he's definitely sick in the head.

Oh man, you must have been hit worse then I thought, you have a bump anywhere *look at his head* Hmm, little one maybe. Still, you'd think it'd be obvious the sky was green, I mean, look at it. You better get checked out. See a doctor or something. I mean, everyone is talking about it. This is the biggest event to happen in our lifetime. Don't get left out just cause you got a bump on the head.

The closing:

Oh...you know what? You better sit tight on this info. If they find out you lost some memory and now you are seeing things, they might not react so good. Everyone is being paranoid right now. Tell you what, to be safe, don't tell anyone about this and just go along with what people say. I mean, sure, the sky is green and you can't see that, but don't make a big deal out of it.

Cedric

 

[Mistwell]

Arcana Unearthed has a slightly different take on this, that might be helpful for this discussion.

On page 73 of the AU variant player's handbook, it says this:

Practically Impossible Tasks: In general, to do something that’s practically impossible requires that the character have at least 10 ranks in the skill and entails a penalty of –20 on the character’s roll or a +20 to the Difficulty Class (which amounts to the same thing).
Practically impossible tasks are hard to delineate ahead of time. They’re the accomplishments that represent incredible, almost logic-defying skill and luck.
The DM decides what is actually impossible and what is merely practically impossible. For instance, it’s practically impossible for a Medium character to jump off a ledge 200 feet above the ground and land in a 2-foot-diameter hole. It’s actually impossible for a Large character to do so.

Extraordinary Success: If the character has at least 10 ranks in a skill and beats the Difficulty Class by 20 or more on a normal skill check, the character has completed the takes impossibly well. The DM should assign an appropriate game benefit to an extraordinary success. For instance, say a character was making a Diplomacy skill check against a DC 20 to convince the magistrate to reduce the charges against his friend. If his check result was actually 40, the DM might rule that the magistrate does not merely reduce the charge, she dismisses them and lets the friend go free.

 

[Norfleet]

I mean, sure, the sky is green and you can't see that, but don't make a big deal out of it.

Cedric

You haven't convinced him that the sky is actually green. You HAVE perhaps convinced him that something is wrong with his eyes and he might want to get that checked out.

Alternatively, you've convinced him that something is wrong with your head, and you might want to get that checked out.

 

[Cedric]

Heh, pick nits much?

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Heh, pick nits much?

he doesn't seem to, the statement was one of convincing, not getting to confusedly mumble, "yeah, green".