Maybe different versions just have different goals, and that's okay.

[LostSoul]

Using interupts means that you can actually have a workable spell/counterspell system.

Now, if we could just see that system in 4e.

I don't know if that's possible in 4e.

Spells and martial exploits are balanced, so you'd have to have a similar system set up for interrupting exploits. Once you do that, anyone can make someone else's turn void. It'd be like Stunning them. That sucks; it's unbalanced and breaks the game.

That said, Counterspelling (and interrupting exploits) could be a Power.

You could allow someone to apply a penalty to the target's next attack - that might be a good way to deal with this.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I'm fairly neutral on it taste wise. I can see it as a good idea. The whole counter-spell system in 3e just didn't work for me. Forego an action to maybe stop someone from casting a spell was always a sub-optimal choice. Much, much things to do, even if it's a simple "ready a magic missile if he casts anything".

Using interupts means that you can actually have a workable spell/counterspell system.

Now, if we could just see that system in 4e.

Let me clarify - in the WoW d20 (again, using this example because I was just playing it yesterday), I don't have to ready my spell in advance to counterspell. That's for arcanists. Huh. Arcanists. Bunch'a nothings.

Magic and Mayhem "introduced" two new actions - interrupt and instant. You get one per round (I forget if it's one of each or one of both). As my spell is an interrupt actions, I can do whatever I want on my turn, then still cast it on the enemy spellcaster's turn.

I'm almost positive 3.5 had this too. Stormwrack, I think had at least one spell that didn't have to be readied during your turn that would allow someone to be naturally boyant enough to float on the water regardless of failed swim checks or being unconcious.

 

[rounser]

Magic the Gathering: As a player of MTG, I see little to no influence on DnD from Magic. Can you supply some examples?

Maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees. The basic design of both M:tG and 4E is:

1) Simple set of base rules for combat.
2) Thousands of exceptions based on special abilities/powers/whatever.

That's the exception-based game design model. WOTC even states in one of the core books that they're following it. All those powers are the exceptions, and map pretty much directly to an exception on an M:tG card - both require "breaking the rules" for a special instance, because Guzzlewomps can be tapped to draw an extra card that goes directly to the discard pile unless it's a land, and 4th level Haberdashers can move an opponent a space on a successful hit, so long as it's Tuesday and they're wearing green tights.

Do you follow?

DnD Miniatures: These are a purely optional item.

Indeed, but it would be naive to assume that D&D hasn't been built to help sell them.

DnD On-line: I hate to say it, but your currently discussing DnD on-line . D&DI is not out yet, so I will not pass judgment on it. However, it is another optional item.

Again, I think it would be naive to assume that it wasn't designed with an eye to turning D&D IP into CRPGs, MMORPGs, and DDI online gaming. I could be wrong.

WoW: Tauren is better described as a Minotaur (bull/man hybrid) in their physical appearance and Native American in their cultural.

They're also pretty specific to WoW, just as WOTC is trying to make dragonborn specific to D&D. That's trademarkable product identity branding guff, right there. Do you think it was a coincidence that the tiefling got ousted from the PHB cover and replaced by the dragonborn? My guess is that "tiefling" got pipped for the flagship of branding, and when the distributors complained, the runner-ups (dragonborn) got to go in the driver's seat. They're trying to brand the game as something not generic. This is bad for D&D, as it can no longer do generic fantasy by default. People who homebrew don't necessarily want specific flavour. The implied setting is supposed to be a baseline, not a bleeding edge.

Customer Service Retention: Quite possibly the strangest point in your discussion, at least in relation to my own games. I've never had a need to call customer service for DnD. The idea is completely alien to me. Once the DM says yeah or nay, the issue is resolve. If the Customer Service department for DnD were all turned into fuzzy sheep there would be zero impact on the DnD games I play.

Not customer service retention, just customer retention. GW is cavalier with regard to pleasing and retaining their established players (i.e. who cares about them once they've bought several hundred dollars of minis they'll use a handful of times), and WOTC is showing signs of it too with 4E. The new edition is new in that 3E took a "softly softly" approach to the IP because they weren't sure whether anyone would convert. Maybe 3E taught WOTC that this fear was unfounded, and they could go to town on the game. It remains to be seen whether this is true.

 

[Hussar]

Let me clarify - in the WoW d20 (again, using this example because I was just playing it yesterday), I don't have to ready my spell in advance to counterspell. That's for arcanists. Huh. Arcanists. Bunch'a nothings.

Magic and Mayhem "introduced" two new actions - interrupt and instant. You get one per round (I forget if it's one of each or one of both). As my spell is an interrupt actions, I can do whatever I want on my turn, then still cast it on the enemy spellcaster's turn.

I'm almost positive 3.5 had this too. Stormwrack, I think had at least one spell that didn't have to be readied during your turn that would allow someone to be naturally boyant enough to float on the water regardless of failed swim checks or being unconcious.

Kinda sorta. Feather Fall, for example, was changed to an Immediate spell, which meant you could cast it on someone else's turn, although, only one casting per round. So, the concept was being explored, although, barely.

Where I'm seeing the concept now is a number of powers trigger automatically when someone else does something. Both character classes and monsters get these. It's a good idea IMO. My only problem is that with things at the table, I can see this turning into a mess. You likely won't have a bunch of interupts occurring simultaneously, hopefully, but, I've seen problems where players aren't quite on the ball and the game comes to a screeching halt because Bloggins isn't up to scratch on his rules-fu.

This is a table issue, I realize, but, I hope that it doesn't come up all the time.

 

[Hussar]

They're trying to brand the game as something not generic. This is bad for D&D, as it can no longer do generic fantasy by default. People who homebrew don't necessarily want specific flavour. The implied setting is supposed to be a baseline, not a bleeding edge.

Umm, what? Putting an Efreeti and the City of Brass on the cover of the DMG is generic fantasy, but a Dragonborn is specific flavor? Come on. I know you loath dragonborn, but, that's a bit extreme don't you think?

Hrm, fanatasy chick with fantasy lizard dude on the cover of a fantasy book. Yeah, that's extremely specific. We've never, ever seen anything like that on the cover of a fantasy book before. Totally, 100% bleeding edge of design. /end sarcasm.

 

[rounser]

Umm, what? Putting an Efreeti and the City of Brass on the cover of the DMG is generic fantasy, but a Dragonborn is specific flavor? Come on. I know you loath dragonborn, but, that's a bit extreme don't you think?

No, that's not what I meant. I don't care about what's on the cover. I care about what's a core race and class in the PHB. You're misunderstanding (perhaps on purpose).

The cover thing was just an example of the branding thing I think that they're trying. That's all.

 

[My Lego]

Another design convenience handwaved by pointing to hollywood. The difference is that we can see the 1 HP, and it doesn't make sense in the context of a D&D world. A movie can get away with things that D&D can't, because in D&D we can see the rules.

You can always justify it if you strain hard enough, but by default it makes so little sense that it actually requires explanation. This alone should be a strong suggestion that it's been done wrong.

For me and my group minions have actually helped tremendously with suspension of disbelief. When we where playing before we usually had discussions with new playerds that went something like this:

Player: So I shove my great sword through his belly, (rolles dies) hit he dies.

DM: Nope you missed or rather he aptly dodge out of the way, but you nick him.
Player: So I can never really hit anything right, ok then I know.
DM: No, I mean yes. Well you can hit things that have run out of HP.
Player: OK, cool. But it feels strange that you can never ever hit anyone on the first try. The have this magic field around them....

****
Now, the minions are really just ordinary people and when they face non minions the reaction is rather.
"Wow so he really avoided most of the hit. Ok guys we have tough fighter here who just won't die. Protected by the dark gods I say"
I don't know but in my group the minions never really where the problem the where more like the solution.

 

[rounser]

DM: Nope you missed or rather he aptly dodge out of the way, but you nick him.
Player: So I can never really hit anything right, ok then I know.
DM: No, I mean yes. Well you can hit things that have run out of HP.
Player: OK, cool. But it feels strange that you can never ever hit anyone on the first try. The have this magic field around them....

"I hit with my quarterstaff. The giant dies."
"I throw my dart at it. The dragon dies."
"I knife it with my dagger. The demon dies."

What a huge stretch. It implies there's no such thing as a wound, and that every hit is fatal. Not even gunshot or shrapnel wounds are always fatal, and not every sword hit is a "I run them through". I think you've just got beginning players with very weird expectations...

YES, low level monsters will die to a single greatsword strike! That feature was in earlier editions! Even mid-to-high level monsters will, after you throw in all the bonuses of a high level character...

 

[Branduil]

"I hit with my quarterstaff. The giant dies."
"I throw my dart at it. The dragon dies."
"I knife it with my dagger. The demon dies."

What a huge stretch. It implies there's no such thing as a wound, and that every hit is fatal. Not even gunshot or shrapnel wounds are always fatal, and not every sword hit is a "I run them through". I think you've just got beginning players with very weird expectations...

YES, low level monsters will die to a single greatsword strike! That feature was in earlier editions! Even mid-to-high level monsters will, after you throw in all the bonuses of a high level character...

Except it's impossible in D&D to get wounds that actually mean anything.

 

[rounser]

Except it's impossible in D&D to get wounds that actually mean anything.

You really want D&D to turn into Gimpmaster?