Maze spell: do you allow it?

[Dice4Hire]

Yes, with HOrrid WIlting and Poly any Object there, taking Maze seems kind of weak for the single 8th elvel choice. FOr th second 8th level spell, it looks better, but not the first one. Poly any Object can do a whole lot in and out of combat.

 

[ashockney]

What did Trailblazer do?

 

[Allenchan]

Honestly, in my experience it is used essentially as a way to delay/seperate someone from the combat. In which case, it is very weak. Why? Because Force Cage does the exact same thing and is a level lower, also no save.

 

[Destil]

There's no problem with maze in 3E. It's the ultimate 'crowd control' spell, nearly impossible to defend against, but it does nothing else and the duration isn't great unless you're using it on something stupid. A fine niche spell, and for a sorcerer with a lot of area blasting options and utility already a good one.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Maze is fine.

And what's so bad about Otto's? D:

http://ettin.rancossack.com/demogorgon.gif

 

[Nebten]

In which case, it is very weak. Why? Because Force Cage does the exact same thing and is a level lower, also no save.

Forgecage is a heck of a lot more expensive though. 1,500 gp in ruby dust, ouch!

 

[Runestar]

Forgecage is a heck of a lot more expensive though. 1,500 gp in ruby dust, ouch!

Though you can replicate it via greater shadow evocation (8th lv spell), thereby eschewing the need for a costly material component. And I don't think the 60% real drawback affects any part of the replicated spell meaningfully (how do you have a wall of force that is only 60% effective in blocking?).

So yeah, maze can actually be interpreted as being weaker than greater shadow evocation...

I suppose maze would require you to rethink how you design encounters though. In the very least, it discourages the use of dual-monsters of roughly equivalent cr with moderate cr, such as 2 death giants, since you can expect one of them to be mazed, and the other giant to be taken care of by the time maze wears off.

But then again, I could also argue that this may not necessarily make the battle any easier, since it would discourage the use of AoE effects (as you can only affect 1 enemy at a time). So depending on how your party fights, they may not really be any better of (not forgetting that maze itself already uses up a 8th lv slot).

It is also quite powerful against the party as well. Taking the party cleric out of the fight can pretty much turn the tide of the battle. But no fun for the player who effectively has to sit out the entire battle.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

What did Trailblazer do?

Nothing (yet).

I liked one of the suggestions made whereby spending a standard action granted you a save; I'd take that a step further, allowing a bonus to the save for high INT; and yet another step further and stipulate that the creature so banished doesn't have to try to find his way out immediately.

He might have things he'd like to do while he's away on mazecation.

All of which, admittedly, is just talking off the top of my head. I wouldn't touch anything without a clear plan in place that knows exactly what type of play experience is desired at such high levels, and which takes all spells of comparable level into account.

I know what works for me; but I don't know what the consensus is.

I don't think it's worthwhile to publish "whack-a-mole" solutions since it's fundamentally easier for the DM to exercise that kind of control himself. If maze isn't working for your campaign, whack it yourself.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Maze.

Time Hop is a low level psionic version of basically the same damn thing, except it allows a save and has aid usage (hop an endangered ally or a dominated one out of the fight for a while) since you can set how long it lasts, and thus have an idea of how long they'll be gone.

Also compare with the level 4 Shadow Well from Spell Compendium, which allows a save, but when the victim comes back, he is shaken.

If it weren't for the not allowing a save, Maze would be worthless at level 8.

 

[Thanee]

No spell of the level (16th) can do what this spell can do without a save. It is ignorantly potent against elite or solo high level BBEG's, which makes it inherently overpowered.

And what exactly does it do against them?

Bye
Thanee