Mearls' Legends and Lore (or, "All Roads Lead to Rome, Redux")

[pemerton]

But Imaro, that stuff exists. If you like it, surely it's because you've read it. And if you've read it, nine times out of ten that will be because you own it!

 

[mxyzplk]

I can only answer for my self, but contrary to a few/some/many people's belief that no one enjoys the fluff of D&D... some do, especially when it comes to older editions. Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Planescape, Hollow World, Birthright... and so on are all things one cannot get from other companies because they are the IP of WotC.

Exactly, and the Tomb of Horrors and the Temple of Elemental Evil and Eclavdra and Mordenkainen and Strahd's castle... Believe it or not, guys, these things are why some people love D&D, not because "AC ascends now" or some such garbage. It's funny, by trying to spike fluff in favor of All Rules All The Time, WotC has actually made the game less "sticky."

Edit: and yes, pemerton, you can still read your old stuff, but not use new stuff, and not publish your own stuff, because it's WotC's IP.

 

[darjr]

I don't own the tomb or temple or the LBB.

 

[Raven Crowking]

But Imaro, that stuff exists. If you like it, surely it's because you've read it. And if you've read it, nine times out of ten that will be because you own it!

I have no desire to play or run a game in Greyhawk, but I do have a real desire to obtain a new printing of the gazetteer. I'd also like new copies of the booklets in the original Spelljammer boxed set, which are useful for populating a fantasy solar system even if you are not using Spelljammer.

I like the idea of side trips to other worlds in a campaign setting, ala Edgar Rice Burroughs, even where there is no direct tie to Spelljamming!


R - jumping on the bandwagon of stealing Lanefan's sig -C

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon...I'm going to just steal sigs outright.

R - jumping on the bandwagon of stealing Lanefan's sig -C

 

[Mark CMG]

Interesting move . . .




M - redesigning on the bandwagon of gaming -CMG

 

[Imaro]

But Imaro, that stuff exists. If you like it, surely it's because you've read it. And if you've read it, nine times out of ten that will be because you own it!

Again, I can only speak to my own situation... I was really young when alot of the Planescape setting stuff came out. As a kid I was able to get the original boxed set and (I believe though I could be wrong) a single module and the Planewalkers Handbook. I was lucky as is to have gotten my parents to buy that stuff then... now I have my own money and I would love to be able to get everything for the setting that I want... as well as a replacement for my very worn box set. So I have neither read everything or own everything I want for Planescape or the BECMI gazetteers, or... well you get the point.

Edit: The weird thing to me is that WotC has all this IP that they could sell to people who may not be all that thrilled with 4e's sparse setting philosophy... or who want to use it for their 1e, 2e, BECMI, retro-clones, C&C, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder, etc. games. Cost is minimal because it's already been produced and would reside in PDF format... and yet you don't make it available?? Even White Wolf recognized the viability of releasing the OWoD for those fans who wanted to complete collections or check out the old stuff... I mean after all, at a certain point you have sold 4e to whose going to buy it... withholding stuff isn't going to get more people to buy your current stuff if they don't like it... but you could still retain a connection with them so they will at least give future products a chance to win them over.

 

[WheresMyD20]

Again, this isn't supported by the metaphor. In choosing to no longer produce 3e, WotC did not directly starve it of resources. The environmental resources this metaphor assumes are the players and their investment in a given game.

I think that it's wrong to assume that only player demand is what's driving the "evolution" of editions. Companies have a vested interest in providing and restricting supply in order to encourage the "evolution" of the hobby in a way that is in their best business interest. One needs to consider the supply side as well as the demand side.

Taking this in terms of the evolution metaphor, the companies involved are capable of some degree of artificially altering the food supply (support/availability) in order to ensure that their preferred species "wins" in the evolutionary race.

 

[WheresMyD20]

And maybe this is the answer to my question.

It's amazing how many times "nostalgia" is the motivation automatically assumed when discussing classic editions.

Consider this - The movie "Psycho" is an old movie filmed in black and white. A color remake was created a few years back. Why do many people prefer the black-and-white original? Is it out of nostalgia? No, it's because many people consider it a better overall film.

Likewise, there are those of us who feel that the original, classic editions are better overall versions of the game than the modern "remakes" of D&D. It's not nostalgia - it's just a personal preference and a subjective judgment of overall quality.

 

[pemerton]

It's amazing how many times "nostalgia" is the motivation automatically assumed when discussing classic editions.

I think you misunderstood me. (Which is not to say you'll agree with me even if you do understand me.)

I'm not saying that people like the old games because of nostalgia. Heck, if I wanted to run or play in a non-4e D&D game I'd be tempted to go AD&D/OSRIC ahead of 3E.

But what puzzles me is why people care whether its WotC or someone else who's publishing the OSRIC rules, new OSRIC adventures, etc etc. Nostalgia seemed a possible explanation for that.

I was also suggesting that nostalgia might be a reason why people want to (re-)purchase Vault of the Drow, the Slave Lords etc. Raven Crowking has given an alternative reason - new copies to replace old worn out copies.

The weird thing to me is that WotC has all this IP that they could sell to people who may not be all that thrilled with 4e's sparse setting philosophy

Because I've always been happy to prepare my own setting stuff, and/or to cobble together bits or pieces of whatever I've got on my shelf (D&D's pantheon meets Palladium's pantheon meet's 1st ed Deities & Demigods meets . . .), maybe I personally don't feel the force of this. Especially because quite a bit of this stuff is on my shelf (mostly but not always picked up second hand from my local game store). I can see how others might feel differently.

My own hypothesis is that WotC are sitting on their IP because they believe that by selling it, even if the proceeds of sale are greater than the cost of hosting and processing sales, they will dilute their brand and therefore ultimately cost themselves more sales. I don't know if this is true. If I read him correctly, I believe that DannyAlcatraz thinks it's false.

But WotC would hardly be the only company that sits on its IP. That's the way of things in a world in which cultural production is privatised. (My collection of Rolemaster materials is incomplete, for example, because some of my stuff was lent out and not returned, and other stuff I never got back in the day, and now you can't get it at all. This is just the way of the modern world, I think.)