Mearls redesigns the Ogre Mage

[Zaukrie]

Great series. I like both new monsters a lot. I especially like the rust monster changes.

I like the new role for the ogre mage, but I realize it is not the "old" ogre mage in terms of its role.

As for the whole "add a class" discussion - I disagree with some of you. I like monsters that have abilities added onto them, and don't want to always have to add templates or classes to get something different.

 

[BluSponge]

This redesign doesn't offend my sensibilities nearly as much as the rsut monster one. I suppose I could take the nostalgia track that ogre magi are not "ogre generals, but a whole different species of beastie (with their own chiefs, according to the 1st ed MM). But the 3e MM fails to make note of their heirarchy, so that point is moot ultimately.

Dropping sleep and charm person make a certain amount of sense, in that these were probably more effective when parties dealing with ogre magi had 5-6 hired man-at-arms at their disposal. I also find it satisfying that the creature was dropped to a CR 5 (the original was a 5+2 HD monster, so that shift seems to be in line with where the creature has been in the past).

What does make me uncomfortable (it's not a deal breaker, but...) is the shift from the creature's use of guile and subterfuge to a greatsword slugger. It seems you could have gone one way or the other, and Mike's chosen the brute with a twist path. This is, of course, a matter of personal taste. But then, from reading the playtest notes, it seems very clear that many of these changes DO stem from a desire for DnD to fit a particular style. And Lord knows by now we can argue about style changes all day here and the only result is a closed thread.

Oh, and what's with the polymorph hate?!

So, like I said, I'm not raving mad at this one, but I can't say that I'm jumping out of my chair yelling, "BRILLIANT," either. It seems that in the process of giving the monster focus, R&D yet again decides to jettison a good chunk of what makes the monster a different encounter.

Tom

 

[Scribble]

First off I like the monster. It'll go into my box o monsters for later use.

But I question, what makes it an Ogre Mage (aside from that being it's name...)

I mean if you boil it down, a D&D monster is just a collection of numbers... So if you change all those numbers is it still the same thing?

Unlike the Rust Monster, who's basic premise stayed the same (relatively) the new Ogre Mage is changed completely... So is it still an Ogre Mage? Or a new creature completely?

(Or is it just how the current designer theory would make an OM, if the previous OM never existed?)

 

[Squire James]

Well, the redesign would invalidate the ogre mage's trick in White Plume Mountain (i.e. polymorph to halfling). I suppose he could still dupe a dwarf or human with similar effect, but he'd need to be beefed up to meet the CR 9 or 10 that a Plume boss should have. Most classes are now "associated", because the revised Ogre Mage has elements of Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I like this guy, though I must admit I liked the charm person throwaway ability, just as a means to mess with fighters and the ogre mage's ogres out of combat.

 

[Scribble]

And what about Sleep... While it might not be usefull against the PCs... what about the PC's hirelings and animals n stuff?

Granted not THAT usefull... but...

 

[Delta]

One thing that jumps out at me is he compared the physical stats to that of a Stone Giant, basically the strongest monster in the game for its CR and size level. All of the Giants dramatically break the curve if you compare them to similar size and CR (AD&D2 doubled hit dice, then 3E added another big increment for Con). If that's the R&D metric, then every monster in existence will need to be beefed up to match the Giants' precedent.

 

[Glyfair]

Somehow, Mike manages to strip all the really cool flavor and replace it with boring (but mechanically sound) stuff.

I don't agree with this. There has been flavor with the Ogre Mage, but it wasn't in it's abilities, to me.

Since my 1E days, the Ogre Mage always felt like a DM messing with the party. Viola, it's an Ogre with an oriental theme. Ah-ha, you didn't expect that Cone of Cold, did you? Ah-ha, now it turns to gas and runs away. Yeah, it turned invisible and sneaked back to backstab you.

There certainly are worse examples of a mish-mash of non-themed abilities (beyond, let's suprise the players). The Ogre Mage was always one that stretched my feel of a living breathing creature, though.

 

[hong]

The thing that dismays me the most is this concept that every single monster has to be stacked against the archetypical party, and that it's fundamentally flawed if somehow thats not the case.

For the MM1, that was for the best. New system, new rules, little third-party support as yet, you needed to make the first source of opponents as broadly applicable as possible.

Well, yes. You'll notice that these are MM1 creatures he's hacking.

 

[MarkB]

As with the re-design of the rust monster, I am not sure I like this revised Ogre Mage concept. To me, at least, it has taken the creatively quirky spark of the original concept and made it a duller, more generic creature.

The thing is, though, when I look at the standard MM1 Ogre Mage, I can't seem to find any "creative, quirky spark" there at all. Frankly, it's just a mess.

Really, where exactly in the original is this essential unique charm that the 3.5 designers are supposedly stripping out in favour of game balance? In the case of the rust monster, I could see a little of that - but in this case, the normal v3.5 ogre mage doesn't seem to have any such mystique that's worth preserving in the first place.

The redesigned one, on the other hand, feels real and solid - it's a creature that makes sense within a fantasy world. I wouldn't hesitate to add a sprinkling of these ogre mages to the ogres-with-class-levels I'd customarily use as the more senior members of a standard ogre tribe.