Med-Encumbered Dwarf Barbarian Base Speed: 20' or 25'?

[DrSpunj]

The Subject says most of it. I tried looking in the PHB and SRD which say:

Fast Movement: The barbarian has a speed faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet when wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor (and not carrying a heavy load).

If you apply the +10' first, giving the Dwarf a Base Speed of 30', then Medium encumbrance would be similar to Humans, Elves, etc. of 20' per round.

However, if you take "faster than the norm for his race" to mean that the +10' is added after, then a Medium encumbered Dwarf has a Base Speed of 15', plus 10' yields a total speed of 25' per round.

The Main FAQ from 4/4/03 didn't offer anything directly on topic, however the second to last question in the FAQ has a table that states encumbrance by Base Speed. That, of course, doesn't help with the interpretation of the Fast Movement ability (apply it first or after).

Has the Sage or some other source clarified this? I thought I had read something at some point clarifying it, but I can't find it now and wonder if it was just opinions on this board in a similar thread.

Thanks!

DrSpunj

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you apply the +10' first, giving the Dwarf a Base Speed of 30', then Medium encumbrance would be similar to Humans, Elves, etc. of 20' per round.

That gets my vote, but I'm not going to back it up with a rules quote

-Hyp.

 

[The Souljourner]

I'm with Hypersmurf - seems logical, but there's no rules that say one way or the other.

-The Souljourner

 

[Darklone]

I read something from the sage about it once, but no idea if it's in the FAQ....

Applying common sense though... why should a dwarf with 30ft movement naked be faster than a human when both wear chainmail?

 

[krunchyfrogg]

I always thought you added the +10 after determining the encumbrance, making it a 25 base speed. I could be wrong, though.

 

[DrSpunj]

Well...

I read something from the sage about it once, but no idea if it's in the FAQ....

Applying common sense though... why should a dwarf with 30ft movement naked be faster than a human when both wear chainmail?

If it's in the FAQ, I missed it. I'm assuming someone here posted their response from the Sage on the subject in the past.

And your common sense is saying what mine is saying!

But I *can* see the other interpretation, even if I don't agree with it. I was just hoping someone could point me towards what I've read/seen in the past. I guess this is something else I hope gets clarified in 3.5e.

Thanks!

 

[Darklone]

I'm sorry, I have no idea if I read it in the old FAQ once or got a mail from Skip about it, but it was something official... perhaps in one of the books?

Where is it written how fast a large creature with encumbrance is?

 

[DrSpunj]

I'm sorry, I have no idea if I read it in the old FAQ once or got a mail from Skip about it, but it was something official... perhaps in one of the books?

Where is it written how fast a large creature with encumbrance is?

No problem, just curious. I didn't check Masters of the Wild, come to think of it. Is there some relevant text in there? (IDHMBWM)

The only place I could find a table listing encumbrance for a large range of speeds is the very last page of the MainFAQ from 4/4/03. The relevant question is actually the first on the page, the second to last in the whole FAQ.

It simply states Base Speed on the top row, then Encumbered Speed on the second row. For 30' it's 20', and for 20' it's 15', which we all know. Trying to deduce anything from Barbarians with a Base Speed of 30' doesn't help, as with Fast Movement applied before or after you get an encumbered speed of 30'.

The "applied before" interpretation seems a lot more internally consistent, as then everyone with a Base Speed of 30' moves 20'. If you go with the "applied after" interpretation, you've got Small-sized Barbarians moving with a Base Speed of 25' which just seems...wonky.

The only other information I could on Base Speed in the FAQ was the Monk Speed table. There it does show that Monk's with a Base Speed of 20' have a Base Speed of 25' for levels 3-5, but I don't think that's really relevant or strengthens/detracts either interpretation.

Unless someone can quote an official clarification, it looks like it's a DM's call.

Thanks for the opinions!

 

[Darklone]

Mail the Sage?

 

[DrSpunj]

Right!

Yeah, definitely an option. IMC I'd just rule it as "apply before" and be done with it. But this question is coming up in a group I play in. I'll point my DM to the thread and see what he wants to do.

Thanks!