Medieval Justice?

[Hand of Evil]

After or before the Dark Ages? If before, serfs were the poor tied to the land people of Robin Hood, if after they were starting to become a middle class.

I try to work in three worlds for my game, guild / state / church, for building laws. Guild law is best business and trade. State law is civil, city or country, and church law is anything religion.

 

[Bagpuss]

Actually peasents had their own courts as well where matters such as land disputes, thefts, assault, etc. were settled without involving the Lord of the land at all, as long as a noble or clergy were not involved justice was often handled by a peasent council show of hands or elected headman, sentence were mainly fines of some form.

 

[S'mon]

Nope. The lord of the manor's right of [low] justice was actually the right to receive the revenue of the fines. It was far more likely to be the bailiff than that lord himself who presided at the court, and the verdict and penalty in manor court were assigned by the jury.

Regards,


Agback

Oops - forgot about the jury; although AIR the jury was initially more like a group of Witnesses, chosen for their knowledge of the case and the character of the defendant. A bailiff would stand in for a lord, if the lord couldn't be bothered adjudicating petty manborial disputes, but the sources I have say the lord would also do it himself - maybe it depends on the time period, and also the size of the manor of course.

 

[S'mon]

After or before the Dark Ages? If before, serfs were the poor tied to the land people of Robin Hood, if after they were starting to become a middle class.

?!?!

 

[Hand of Evil]

?!?!

Due to the vast population lost of the dark ages serfs were able to work greater tracks of land, which increased their wealth, serfs were then able to purchase freedom and land, forming the merchant class and the middle class. They started to have greater rights and powers.

 

[S'mon]

Due to the vast population lost of the dark ages serfs were able to work greater tracks of land, which increased their wealth, serfs were then able to purchase freedom and land, forming the merchant class and the middle class. They started to have greater rights and powers.

Hmm, I think you mean the Black Death in the 14th century, not the Dark Ages (ca 450-1000 AD).

 

[Hand of Evil]

Hmm, I think you mean the Black Death in the 14th century, not the Dark Ages (ca 450-1000 AD).

I do think you are right, damn those evil guys always wearing dark and black outfits, can't tell one from the other!

 

[Wombat]

After or before the Dark Ages? If before, serfs were the poor tied to the land people of Robin Hood, if after they were starting to become a middle class.

I try to work in three worlds for my game, guild / state / church, for building laws. Guild law is best business and trade. State law is civil, city or country, and church law is anything religion.

Hmmm, this is a lot of questionable material tied into one place...

"Dark Ages" is a terribly elastic term. Few, if any, historians even use the term any more, preferring "Late Antiquity" or "Early Middle Ages" (along with other terminology) depending on when and where you are talking about.

Robin Hood began as a head-cracking, out-for-himself ruffian who drank and laughed a lot in late 14th century ballads, not at all tied to "robbing from the rich and giving to the poor", much less Kings John and Richard. His tie to peasantry is pretty vague, but his "career" began more as a yeoman-class bandit, only morphing into "defender of the poor" sometime in the 18th century.

As for serfs being tied to the land, well... Yes, in certain areas ... at certain times ... with those peasants belonging to certain classes, but often the ties were as much traditional ("Yes, sir knight, this might be your land, but my family has always farmed it and you're not taking it away from me!") as legal. And "Middle Class" really isn't a solid concept until the 18th century, any more than social mobility really is.

Civil & Canon (Church) Law were, indeed, separate for most of the Middle Ages, but there were many non-priests who also fell under Canon Law -- scribes, clerks, university students, and they defended their right to be charged under Canon Law strenuously. Everything else was Civil Law, including the Guilds. Yes, the Guilds were sometimes self-regulating, as were certain cities, but their charters could be revoked by kings and lords if they did not play ball. And "Guild Law" primarily related to business standards (the narrow range in which you could set prices, the narrow band of quality acceptable in the guild, membership, funeral dues, etc.), rather than anything to do with a criminal justice code.

**pant pant**

See what happens when you get a Medievalist started?

Any wonder that a large chunk of my non-D&D time was spent playing Ars Magica? ;D

 

[Sarigar]

Actually you might be surprised just how many rights peasants have -- mostly via local tradition, rather than statute. No, peasants did not have glorious lives by any modern standard, but the number of holidays they had was quite wide (days off for farmers and craftsmen significantly dropped when the Protestant Reformation came through, since most saints days were dropped from the calendar) and various villages have odd prerogatives, such as the right to hunt on one given day, communal crop rights (thus the poorest of the poor still would get something). Many peasant uprisings began over the infringement of "traditional rights".

And, just so this is taken out ahead of time, no, there was never a "First Night" privilege for nobles when peasants got married

True, mostly. As you indicate, however, local tradition is why we have the notion of "first night" privilege.

 

[Sarigar]

If you are looking for general information on Medieval justice go here - http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html
If you want Medieval laws go here -
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook-law.html

Posted by Wombat ("Yes, sir knight, this might be your land, but my family has always farmed it and you're not taking it away from me!"). Swiftly followed by said farmers quick demise.

Power = Justice

Those who had the power made the rules. If the rules got in the way, make a new one.

Also, it depends on when and where you are talking about. 450-1000 CE is much different from the time immediately before the Black Death, which is different from the time following the plague. Also, Catalonia(Spain) cannot be compared to Canterbury even during the same period since you don't have the Moor or Jewish presence in one as with the other.

As far as adapting it to gaming, make your own rules based on what YOU thing would work. At some time and place something similar probably happened, its all about how you interpret it.