Medium characters grappling large creatures?

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I can't remember an edition that handled grappling well.

Despite some issue 3.x rules were at least not worthless IME, but I never had a player focus on that so maybe I just didn't see the larger flaws.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Sure, but the grapple rules don't override the rules on how much a person can drag.

But mass is not part of a stat block, and I'm not going calculate it.

Edit: There's also the old Specific Beats General rule that 5e embraces. Which do you find more specific, Grappling rules or Dragging rules? Which do you find more General?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

No advantage for a size difference in general: larger creatures are generally stronger, so are generally better at grappling.
It takes an exceptionally strong human, or a highly skilled one to be able to match even a normal ogre for example.

I don't generally worry about weight limits when moving while grappling. Getting someone who you have in an armlock to go where you want is rarely a matter of having to drag their dead weight.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Edit: There's also the old Specific Beats General rule that 5e embraces. Which do you find more specific, Grappling rules or Dragging rules? Which do you find more General?

Neither. Or maybe both. There's no conflict between the two.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Neither. Or maybe both. There's no conflict between the two.

If something exceeds the weight I can drag I can't drag it by the Lifting and Carrying rules. If I have a creature grappled I can drag it according to the grapple rules.

So If I have a creature grappled that weighs more than 30 times my strength score I both can and can't drag it.

 

[Oofta]

If something exceeds the weight I can drag I can't drag it by the Lifting and Carrying rules. If I have a creature grappled I can drag it according to the grapple rules.

So If I have a creature grappled that weighs more than 30 times my strength score I both can and can't drag it.

Exactly. Which causes a singularity as the universe cannot handle a potential conflict in rules and the players are sucked into a vortex of contradiction.

Or it never really comes up because who knows how much an ogre weighs and even if we did* the DM would make a ruling and move on. Whichever.

*yes I know you could do a cube mass calculation but then the ogre's bones couldn't hold him up. So does he have supernaturally dense bones that would be even heavier? Bones made of something like titanium so he doesn't really weigh as much? Questions, questions, questions.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Exactly. Which causes a singularity as the universe cannot handle a potential conflict in rules and the players are sucked into a vortex of contradiction.

Or it never really comes up because who knows how much an ogre weighs and even if we did* the DM would make a ruling and move on. Whichever.

*yes I know you could do a cube mass calculation but then the ogre's bones couldn't hold him up. So does he have supernaturally dense bones that would be even heavier? Bones made of something like titanium so he doesn't really weigh as much? Questions, questions, questions.

Bingo. It's a perfect case for a DM to make a ruling and move on. As a player I wouldn't care if they ruled one way or the other as long as they were consistent so I would know for the future.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If you have so many Large creatures that keep getting their movement dropped to 0 via grapple and that is actually causing you so much grief in your fights and encounter design that you feel like you now need to make a house rule so that it doesn't happen so often anymore...

...it's probably just easier to vary up which monsters you are using. Cause odds are good you're suffering from more issues than just speed 0 Large creatures.

 

[devincutler]

No advantage for a size difference in general: larger creatures are generally stronger, so are generally better at grappling.
It takes an exceptionally strong human, or a highly skilled one to be able to match even a normal ogre for example.

I don't generally worry about weight limits when moving while grappling. Getting someone who you have in an armlock to go where you want is rarely a matter of having to drag their dead weight.

The problem is that the modifier is so small compared to the die being rolled, that the stronger creature's strength doesn't matter that much. Let's compare a Str 19 ogre with a Str 10 peasant. The ogre has a +4, so the peasant will successfully grapple the ogre 30% of the time. Now take a reasonably strong human (Str 14) and you are looking at 38.25%. Throw in a low level proficiency in Athletics and you are at 47.5%.


Advantage and disadvantage for size difference is a good solution IMO.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

If something exceeds the weight I can drag I can't drag it by the Lifting and Carrying rules. If I have a creature grappled I can drag it according to the grapple rules.

I don't read it that way. I read it as saying "carrying or dragging a grappled creature is an option but you still have to follow the rules for carrying and dragging." Where are the rules for carrying and dragging? Earlier in the PHB.