D&D 5E Megadungeon delving as a campaign’s core; is it compatible with modern play?

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Sure, more recent versions of the games make character creation much lengthier.
Agreed. The process can be shortened a bit by reducing the number of choices e.g. not using feats (a major choice point) and streamlining the number of playable species, but even then it's still time-consuming. Randomizing spell selection for arcanists would help too as rolling can often be faster than choosing.

The one thing that a DM can do in all editions to speed up char-gen is come up with basic equipment lists or kits for each class or class group, with total cost and encumbrance noted and a note that players can always choose to deviate from the kit if desired. Equipping a character is IME the longest part of the char-gen procedure.
But unless the DM takes death off the table, it's always a risk (assuming no fudging) so it's wise in my view to have backups ready to go in the event it does. What I don't want, as a DM or player, is a player sitting at the table effectively not playing due to what I would consider poor readiness.
Death isn't the only reason a character might leave play for a while, though. Downtime activities e.g. spell research, capture by enemies, accidental long-range teleport with no way back, simple player-chosen character cycling - all of these can take a character out of play for quite some time both in-game and out.
 

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iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Agreed. The process can be shortened a bit by reducing the number of choices e.g. not using feats (a major choice point) and streamlining the number of playable species, but even then it's still time-consuming. Randomizing spell selection for arcanists would help too as rolling can often be faster than choosing.

The one thing that a DM can do in all editions to speed up char-gen is come up with basic equipment lists or kits for each class or class group, with total cost and encumbrance noted and a note that players can always choose to deviate from the kit if desired. Equipping a character is IME the longest part of the char-gen procedure.

Death isn't the only reason a character might leave play for a while, though. Downtime activities e.g. spell research, capture by enemies, accidental long-range teleport with no way back, simple player-chosen character cycling - all of these can take a character out of play for quite some time both in-game and out.
Again, that'll be dependent on edition and this is a 5e thread which I know you don't play. In many D&D 5e groups, it's common in my experience that everyone has 1 character with no plan for a backup character. Either the DM has to take death off the table, fudges when it approaches, or accepts the fact that someone may have to sit out of the game and make a new character.

In groups like mine that do have backup characters, it's common for the players to favor one character over the other and avoid situations where they'd have to bring the other character into play, so a lot of the situations you describe may never arise. Sometimes players will switch to their backup to play them to 3rd level so that they're a bit more survivable should they need to tap them in later, but that's about the extent of it at our tables.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Again, that'll be dependent on edition and this is a 5e thread which I know you don't play. In many D&D 5e groups, it's common in my experience that everyone has 1 character with no plan for a backup character. Either the DM has to take death off the table, fudges when it approaches, or accepts the fact that someone may have to sit out of the game and make a new character.
Rather than just accepting that fact, though, wouldn't a DM who has character death as a possibility want to encourage the players to plan ahead? :)
In groups like mine that do have backup characters, it's common for the players to favor one character over the other and avoid situations where they'd have to bring the other character into play, so a lot of the situations you describe may never arise.
The player-chosen ones, sure. But if a PC gets captured and hauled away (or teleported away!) by an enemy, or steps on a teleport trap and ends up in mid-jungle 1000 miles away, or falls down a one-way chute into an inaccessible part of the dungeon - then what?

I've seen all of these happen in play, by the way. :)
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Again, that'll be dependent on edition and this is a 5e thread which I know you don't play. In many D&D 5e groups, it's common in my experience that everyone has 1 character with no plan for a backup character. Either the DM has to take death off the table, fudges when it approaches, or accepts the fact that someone may have to sit out of the game and make a new character.

In groups like mine that do have backup characters, it's common for the players to favor one character over the other and avoid situations where they'd have to bring the other character into play, so a lot of the situations you describe may never arise. Sometimes players will switch to their backup to play them to 3rd level so that they're a bit more survivable should they need to tap them in later, but that's about the extent of it at our tables.
That is a culture I don't participate in and don't particularly care for. I always encourage back up characters, and death (and other ways to take a PC out of play for a while) is always on the table.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
When the baseline assumption for a campaign length is between 50 and 80 sessions, anything longer than a single session is a LOT of time.
I think I've said this before, but campaign length, session length, and play group size are some of the most impactful variables that get glossed over when we discuss what impacts our play style and preferences.

For example, to me, calling 50-80 sessions a baseline for campaign length seems radical. The longest campaign I've ever been in 30 years of playing is 39 sessions, and that took about 2.5 years. My groups average maybe 15-20 session, but that's because we have rotating DMs, up to 8 players, and we love to try new systems and new ideas. I can't imagine how much game tastes would be impacted if my normal play was that I was a forever DM, with 3 players and running 100+ session campaigns.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Rather than just accepting that fact, though, wouldn't a DM who has character death as a possibility want to encourage the players to plan ahead? :)
I certainly recommend it.

The player-chosen ones, sure. But if a PC gets captured and hauled away (or teleported away!) by an enemy, or steps on a teleport trap and ends up in mid-jungle 1000 miles away, or falls down a one-way chute into an inaccessible part of the dungeon - then what?

I've seen all of these happen in play, by the way. :)
Those situations are probably uncommon in any edition, but even less common than that in D&D 5e, based on what I can see of other people's games plus my own. Whereas multiple characters per player was more common in the past, that does not seem to be the case anymore.

That is a culture I don't participate in and don't particularly care for. I always encourage back up characters, and death (and other ways to take a PC out of play for a while) is always on the table.
I think I'd stop short of calling something so trivial a "culture." It's just a preference.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Sure, more recent versions of the games make character creation much lengthier. But unless the DM takes death off the table, it's always a risk (assuming no fudging) so it's wise in my view to have backups ready to go in the event it does. What I don't want, as a DM or player, is a player sitting at the table effectively not playing due to what I would consider poor readiness.

Eh. I don't see sitting out a bit of a game generating a new character being that much of chore, unless I'm having to do it a lot.

Edit: I should note I play in PF2e, which I have little reason to think is simpler than D&D5e, and I still think I could generate a new character in less than an hour unless I just found myself paralyzed regarding extremely basic decisions at the start.
 
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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I certainly recommend it.


Those situations are probably uncommon in any edition, but even less common than that in D&D 5e, based on what I can see of other people's games plus my own. Whereas multiple characters per player was more common in the past, that does not seem to be the case anymore.


I think I'd stop short of calling something so trivial a "culture." It's just a preference.
Its a playstyle. Changing playstyles for the majority is close enough to a culture shift for me.
 

Bluebell

Explorer
But my point is this: could megadungeons be made into viable environments for the current more character-focused playerbase, is it possible to synergise the two gameplay styles when the map only expands down instead of out and caverns and corridors are 90% of what you see instead of the horizons of forests, mountains, giant cities and frozen tundras? A game where you know you’re going to be coming back through these places over and over so instead of just casting flight on the party to cross that ravine you hire carpenters to build a sturdy retractable bridge, set up a protected outpost as a safe retreat in the monster infested halls and build a rapport with the inhabitants of the dungeon town every time you pass by? Do you mug that wandering salesman for all they’ve got or point them towards the corpses of your latest encounter saying they’re free to salvage anything of interest to them?
So getting back to OP's original question: this is a question I've thought quite a bit about because my current campaign is a homebrewed megadungeon using 5e, and all of my players are very much of the more modern character-focused mindset. When I decided I wanted to build a megadungeon, I scoured through the forums here for every single thread on the topic, and I find it fascinating how diverse megadungeons can actually be, depending on what philosophy you approach them with.

Does my megadungeon recognizably have the same goals as the original, traditional megadungeons did? Not really. I think resource management is a completely valid source of tension in a game, but it doesn't interest me as a DM (at least right now). Nor am I interested in "kitchen sink" style dungeons, where any and every possible monster can show up. I see the value in these for more casual "drop in" play, but for a game where I intend to play with the same small group of players, ideally each with the same character, for a full campaign? Everything should have narrative purpose, including the monster types available to me.

I still adhere to the idea of partially building the campaign around the characters themselves and their backstories, except now both I and the players are keenly aware that maybe they aren't going to be able to simply stumble across the NPC who murdered their parents, so perhaps they need some backstory and character motivation that will better suit the restrictions of the setting they'll be playing in.

My players can't decide to run off to the tundra or an exotic city at the drop of a hat the way that an open sandbox game may allow, so it's my job to make the dungeon itself as vivid and diverse as if they got to explore an entire continent. A few sessions of walking around in damp, dark caves is spooky and fun. Ten sessions of that sounds profoundly boring. The dungeon should be consistent, but also it should change as they move deeper, feature different zones that offer a different feel, and it should also change over time. There should be lots of branching options so that they don't feel like they're walking down an endless corridor of DM railroading. They should have multiple overlapping goals as both individuals and as a party so they can have many small victories along the way and feel the sense of progression that would normally come from clearing a small dungeon and then leaving.

Also, time is real and continues to move forward, both inside the dungeon and outside it. Every time they back out of the dungeon to take a break at camp, they will find things have changed. Every time they re-enter the dungeon, they will find things have changed. They will realize that there might be consequences for spending too much time without exploring, and the time wasted backtracking (especially as they delve deeper and walking in and out becomes a multi-day affair) might not be worth it.
 

The-Magic-Sword

Small Ball Archmage
Sorry for a little bit of a necro, but on the discussion of backstory driven neotrad play from earlier in the thread one way to integrate character backstory and narrative (in order to satisfy the modern taste) to a megadungeon is to fill (or add to/alter) your megadungeon with backstory relevant content.

So if your Warlock or Witch made a pact with some entity in their backstory but they arent sure of its true nature, the answer to that mystery should be found in multiple steps throughout the dungeon, you can even explore the fates of other people who made pacts with them or something.

If your fighter is part of a Stark style family of homorable old blood nobles? The dungeon could include references and content about their ancestors, maybe a legendary sword they have to unlock the power of that was wielded by their family in ancient days or some such.

You can add such elements to existing dungeons or revolve the dungeon around them if you're creating the dungeon from scratch.
 

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