Melee basic's for everyone!

[Kzach]

I've always thought it was a bit stupid that your character can be awesome in melee with his powers, and then all of a sudden suck, just because it's a melee basic attack.

Wisdom monks are ninja-awesome-supreme... until they have to do a melee basic. Int-based swordmasters, battleminds, con-bards, cha-rogues, cha-paladins, the list goes on.

Not only does it make no sense, but it almost mandates the taking of a feat to rectify it just for these classes to do a very basic function that they could otherwise do quite well. A cha-paladin who's smiting all about them shouldn't suddenly not know how to use their sword simply because it's a 'basic' attack.

I honestly don't think it would be unbalanced to simply say, "Use your primary attack stat for your class for all melee and ranged basic attacks."

Seriously, so what if cha-paladin can attack as well as str-paladin on a melee basic? Or that both can throw their javelin's as well as the other? I just don't think it would break the game, nor would it be unfair to the 'Str/Dex' primary's.

 

[nnms]

That's a perfectly fine modification. Basically it's giving everyone melee training (primary attack stat)* for free.

*the current one, rather than the revised one to come

One thing I did once was give everyone a stat called "Attack & Damage." It was equal to their primary attack stat and it worked for all attacks and damage rolls that referenced any stat. It let an all hybrid party not have to worry about bad stat combinations-- everyone just got to roll their "I'm awesome" stat+ half their level.

I'm not sure such a rule would survive with a group of hyper-optimizers though.

 

[knightofround]

Well, I can understand the melee basic to a certain extent. I think it feels *VERY* weird to see a Wizard's melee opportunity attack outdamage the Fighter's. But it is also very weird to see a Monk's ranged basic attack out-damage a Seeker's.

They had the right idea with the swordmage, making a class-specific feats that "fixes" basic attacks for classes that are not optimized towards STR (for melee) or DEX (for ranged)

For example, I think these classes should get a feat to improve their melee basic attacks:

Swordmage: Convert STR to INT
Battlemind: Convert STR to CON
Monk: Convert STR to DEX
Rogue: Convert STR to DEX
Avenger: Convert STR to WIS
Bard: Convert STR to CHA
Druid: Convert STR to WIS
Shaman: Convert STR to WIS
Ardent: Convert STR to CHA

And the following classes get the same thing, but only for ranged basic attacks:

Bard: Convert DEX to CHA
Wizard: Convert DEX to INT
Warlock: Convert DEX to CHA or CON
Sorcerer: Convert DEX to CHA
Invoker: Convert DEX to WIS
Psion: Convert DEX to INT
Seeker: Convert DEX to WIS

 

[Bandikoot]

I ran into the same problem a while back. MBAs are something a character should have learned in basic training, before moving on to more powerful abilities. Seeing PCs suddenly forgetting how to handle their weapon is a bit troublesome so I just gave everyone melee training as a free feat at first level. It has not created a problem yet, though I have not yet had a player attempt to make it an issue.

It seems to me that the problem arose when 4E transitioned to a system that divorced traditional combat stats from those of previous editions, but kept basic attacks as they were. Melee training is a patch for that.

 

[Spatula]

I've always thought it was a bit stupid that your character can be awesome in melee with his powers, and then all of a sudden suck, just because it's a melee basic attack.

Wisdom monks are ninja-awesome-supreme... until they have to do a melee basic. Int-based swordmasters, battleminds, con-bards, cha-rogues, cha-paladins, the list goes on.

Not only does it make no sense, but it almost mandates the taking of a feat to rectify it just for these classes to do a very basic function that they could otherwise do quite well. A cha-paladin who's smiting all about them shouldn't suddenly not know how to use their sword simply because it's a 'basic' attack.

I honestly don't think it would be unbalanced to simply say, "Use your primary attack stat for your class for all melee and ranged basic attacks."

Seriously, so what if cha-paladin can attack as well as str-paladin on a melee basic? Or that both can throw their javelin's as well as the other? I just don't think it would break the game, nor would it be unfair to the 'Str/Dex' primary's.

I've had the same thought. I definitely plan to use this if I ever run a 4e game again.