Melee Weapons sorted by effectiveness?

Mace damage is d6+1, so a 2-7 range with 4.5 average. Morningstar is 1d8, so a 1-8 range which gives the same 4.5 average as a mace.

To differentiate, and make morningstar just that little bit more painful, I'd up it to 2d4 - a 2-8 range with average 5.

You also note in post #4 axe as being an offhand weapon possibility but there's no small axe or "hand axe" shown on the list. Error?
 

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Mace damage is d6+1, so a 2-7 range with 4.5 average. Morningstar is 1d8, so a 1-8 range which gives the same 4.5 average as a mace.

To differentiate, and make morningstar just that little bit more painful, I'd up it to 2d4 - a 2-8 range with average 5.

You also note in post #4 axe as being an offhand weapon possibility but there's no small axe or "hand axe" shown on the list. Error?
Good idea. Yeah I'm going to update the list to fix up the offhands to be a tad more realistic.
 

Why are the short sword and scimitar off-hand weapons? There's little to no historical or practical support for that.

The weights are horribly wrong. I own over 30 battle-ready medieval weapons, and let me assure you those weights are far too heavy. For example, my war hammer weighs in at just over 2.5 pounds. I have several bastard swords, and none are five pounds; neither is my Del Tin Dopplehander. Ironically, your rapier is far too light.
There's plenty of support for long-knives as off-hand weapons in the late 15th through 17th C dueling traditions. Long knives to about 20"... in other words, short swords. There is a lot of documentaiton in the various manuals de fence for rapier and dagger, rapier and cane, rapier and cloak, rapier and townsword (which said, townswords are shortswords), townsword and knife...

Likewise, dual sword, called "Niten" (two heavens) or occasionally "Nitô" (two sword) technique of the late shogunate - specifically, the school of Miyamoto Musashi.

Further, the Scots are documented to use the dirk in the off hand if the targe was lost - reiver period. Period style manuals survive discussing. Note that period use is both held upright.

There is illustrative information showing axe and sword in manuals for German judicial duels. As well as a lot of really funky bits, including what is functionally a European version of the Madu (Sword-shield)... and techniques for using them.
 

There's plenty of support for long-knives as off-hand weapons in the late 15th through 17th C dueling traditions. Long knives to about 20"... in other words, short swords. There is a lot of documentaiton in the various manuals de fence for rapier and dagger, rapier and cane, rapier and cloak, rapier and townsword (which said, townswords are shortswords), townsword and knife...

Likewise, dual sword, called "Niten" (two heavens) or occasionally "Nitô" (two sword) technique of the late shogunate - specifically, the school of Miyamoto Musashi.

Further, the Scots are documented to use the dirk in the off hand if the targe was lost - reiver period. Period style manuals survive discussing. Note that period use is both held upright.

There is illustrative information showing axe and sword in manuals for German judicial duels. As well as a lot of really funky bits, including what is functionally a European version of the Madu (Sword-shield)... and techniques for using them.
Very true, but a short sword is generally longer and had a fully weighted hilt, which separates it from dirks and knives, and lowers its utility as an off-hand weapon.

European use of an off-hand weapon, before the advent of the sword-rapier, was defensive, as a parrying device; even after the advent of the sword-rapier it was still largely defensive. The term 'swashbuckler' comes from the sound a buckler (small shield) made while hung from a belt-hook over the scabbard of a sword-rapier.

The Asian models involved lighter weapons facing less armor than their European counterparts, which it is unwise IMO to mix the two.
 

There's a lot of consideration to go into what makes the best weapon. Who are you? Who, or what, are you fighting against? A spear might be great if I'm fighting in a formation but is it as useful if I'm just a member of an adventuring party and it's only me and one comrade that typically gets into melee with the enemy? On the face of it, weapon differentiating weapon damage seems logical but it ends up being somewhat silly. Chop into my neck with an axe or stab me through the gizzard with a gladius and I'm still going to wind up dead.
 

Agree with MGibster - it depends. Different weapons have different characteristics, so system matters in this respect. Does your system support Blunt Vs Slashing Vs Piercing? in which case this might make a difference. Does your system support weapon range? in which case long hafted and/or 2H weapons behave differently from 1h weapons. Does your system support secondary effects such as stunning, bleeds, impale? in which case Maces will have different effects than spears.
 

Agree with MGibster - it depends. Different weapons have different characteristics, so system matters in this respect. Does your system support Blunt Vs Slashing Vs Piercing? in which case this might make a difference. Does your system support weapon range? in which case long hafted and/or 2H weapons behave differently from 1h weapons. Does your system support secondary effects such as stunning, bleeds, impale? in which case Maces will have different effects than spears.
All good points, haven't decided yet. While I appreciate how 5e split things into blunt, slash, pierce, there is something off with the implementation that I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe because its tracking too much when often it doesn't matter. Or because 500+ monsters end up with slashing resistance so it doesn't feel special.

Having said that I do plan on doing something with different weapon damage types, TBD.

Pole arms definitely will have more range, working on ranged weapons next so will add that in soon.

Yeah there will be buffs and debuffs :-)
 

There's a lot of consideration to go into what makes the best weapon. Who are you? Who, or what, are you fighting against? A spear might be great if I'm fighting in a formation but is it as useful if I'm just a member of an adventuring party and it's only me and one comrade that typically gets into melee with the enemy? On the face of it, weapon differentiating weapon damage seems logical but it ends up being somewhat silly. Chop into my neck with an axe or stab me through the gizzard with a gladius and I'm still going to wind up dead.
The key to weapon choice is much more complicated that that. First is economics: for the Vikings, a sword was terribly expensive, so most settled for axes and spears, whose wood hafts are vulnerable. But the biggest choices revolve around armor, both the user and the enemy.

If you are wearing heavy armor which restricts movement, you want a weapon with simple methods of employment. If you are facing enemy who make extensive use of armor, you want to avoid blades and tend towards maces and war hammers, which do not need to penetrate armor to deal terrible blows. If you are facing lightly armored foes, blades are a better choice.

If you're playing most RPGs, it really doesn't matter at all.
 

  • scimitar shouldn't be offhand.
  • hand axe should be there (with offhand)
  • dagger spear and hand axe should have "thrown" whatever that proves to mean.
  • I'd have pike (or heavy spear) doing 1d10 and not thrown.
  • I'd have 1d10 for pole axe
  • Finally, you should have something for a big stick (i.e. a club). 1d4, given what you've got here, 1d6 if used 2-handed. Would also work for improvised weapons.

All of that is minor. Given the variables you are isolating here, any hange is pretty small. One thing you could ask yourself is if there are more "special" features you could add. I've suggested thrown" above. Here are some others:

  • Spear, pike, halberd, and poleaxe all have "distance": instead of "reach", it takes an action (or a contested Athletics roll) to get within 5'. Spears have been effective for a long time, and this is one way (not the only way) to reflect that. (Pike, Halberd, and Poleaxe could all have reach as well)
  • "offhand" (however you define it; I presume something like able to be used for 2WF) could also give +1 AC when not used to attack, or when used by someone proficient with shield.
  • D&D traditionally does not represent the differences of knife fighting. Yes, the blade is small, but it's also fast, like really fast, and someone trained should be able to strike repeatedly. One way to represent that is by letting a dagger have a "free" second attack, and keep 1d4. Another is to let a knife be used in a grapple, but other weapons not. Another is to use some kind of weapon-speed measure (e.g. Daggers (and poss. rapiers?) put you +2 on init, and 2-handed weapons put you -2.

So much of all of this depends on what you are hoping to accomplish with these lists. I can make a case for including other weapons (e.g. a blackjack that does 1+STR bludgeoning, but counts as finesse for the purposes of sneak attack), but again it all depends what you want to do with these.

Hope this helps.
 

I use Mythras which is a version of RuneQuest/BRP. The system does not model damage type as such, but some weapons are capable of certain effects which in part model damage types, this is a sample:

WeaponDamageSizeReachEffectsEncTraits
1H Weapons:
Dagger1d4+1SSBleed, Impale-Thrown
Club1d6MSBash, Stun1-
Shortspear1d8+1MLImpale2Set, Thrown
Trident1d8MLImpale2Barbed, Thrown
Cuauhololli1d6MMBash, Stun1Flexible
Parashu1d6MMBleed1-
Wahaiaka1d6MMBash, Stun1Entrapping
2H Weapons:
Great Axe2d6+2HLBleed, Sunder2-
Halberd/Poleaxe1d8+2LVLEntangle, Impale, Sunder4Set
Quarterstaff1d8MLStun2Defensive
Maquahuitl2d6+4LLBleed2
Gada1d12HMBash, Stun3
Shields:
Buckler1d3MSBash, Stun1Ranged Parry, Passive Block 2 Locations
Scutum1d4HSBash, Stun4Ranged Parry, Passive Block 5 Locations
Chimalli1d3LSBash, Stun3Ranged Parry, Passive Block 4 Locations
Tamking1d6MMBash, Bleed2Ranged Parry, Passive Block 3 Locations

Weapon Size
Since Mythras (and most BRP) represents parrying as a concept in the combat system, weapon size is a factor. When one weapon parries another, the sizes are compared - If the defender is successful with their parry - as long as the parrying weapon is the same size or larger than the attacking weapon, all damage is blocked. If the parrying weapon is one size smaller, half the damage is blocked, if the parrying weapon is two sizes smaller, no damage is blocked but the defender does not suffer a special effect (another part of the combat system).

Shields
Shields are considered just like another 1h weapon with some distinctive features. They are typically bigger than most 1h weapons, so they parry better Vs big weapons. They can make ranged parries against missiles, which no other weapon can do. They can passively block attacks by covering certain body locations without the need to actively parry. Bigger shields can ward a greater number of locations - a human has 7 hit locations in BRP.

Shields as one-handed weapons are unusually protective for their size. Even a buckler is "M" (Medium) sized, so it can comfortably parry all 1H weapons except for lances which are classed as "H" (Huge) for size. Two-Handed weapons are larger and are commonly "L" (Large) or "H" in size. Most shields are at least "M" or larger (except the buckler), Hoplite, Kite and Scutum sizes are "H" Huge. These can parry Huge 2H weapons comfortably.

Weapon Reach
Reach comes into play in a clash of weapons that are 2 steps of reach apart or greater. For example, a dagger is reach "S" (short), a spear is reach "L" (long). This means that the spear fighter has the advantage at an initial engagement. A shorter reach weapon cannot directly attack the defender, so the dagger fighter has to make an attack, targeting the spear instead of the fighter. If the dagger fighter wins the exchange (attack Vs parry) they may close to their preferred engagement range. The spear fighter may directly engage the dagger fighter, and if they win the exchange, they may keep the dagger fighter at bay. This is an optional rule as it can get difficult to track. The clever part of the system is that it does not just model long weapons and their advantage, it also models the disadvantage the long reach weapon fighter is if an opponent closes in under their reach. At that point the dagger fighter has the advantage because the spear fighter may only attack with the butt of their weapon, and they may not parry with that weapon at all.

This is where a 1h Spear + Shield combination is so useful, because even if the dagger fighter gets in close, the spear + shield fighter may still parry at fully effectiveness with their shield.

Effects
These model weapon types, so that impaling weapons will disadvantage their victim if left in the body. How much you are disadvantaged depends on the size of the weapon - arrows give the victim some skill penalty, a spear stuck in you halves most of your skills. Most edged weapons provide the option of a Bleed effect, which will fatigue and eventually kill a victim if not treated. This effect means that even a small wound can be deadly in time, it can even mean the winner of a melee dies after the combat from their wounds. The "Sunder" effect can tear apart armour, which is very effective in the system, only a few weapons have this effect available, usually two handed weapons only.

Traits
These describe special actions that can be taken with the action. Daggers and spears may be thrown, tridents are barbed (does more damage if removed from a wound), "Set" weapons may be set and braced to receive a charge against an attacker, using their speed against them if the defender wins the engagement. "Flexible" weapons are designed to get around shields, even if they are not literally flexible. A cuauhololli achieves this by virtue of its unusual shape.

2H Weapons
Large 2h weapons have a damage advantage, often capable of twice the damage of 1h weapons, but the user sacrifices the ability to use a shield. These fighters are very vulnerable to missile weapons, they have to rely on their armour, evading (which generally leaves you prone) or just luck to escape injury from missiles as they approach to engage.
 

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