MERGED - "About Edition Wars" threads x9

[TheAuldGrump]

Eh, if you want to have fun with editions, here's my take

0) Chainmail
1) OD&D
2) Holmes
3) AD&D (1E)
4) Moldvay/Cook D&D
5) Mentzer D&D (Were there actual changes between the BECMI rules and the Rules Cyclopedia? Don't remember there being any, just a consolidation)
5) Unearthed Arcana (1E)
6) AD&D 2E
7) Player's Option
8) Dragonlance SAGA
9) D&D 3E
10) D&D 3.5E
11) 4E
12) Essentials 4E

I'd drop Dragonlance Saga - TSR did not even pretend that it was related to D&D. (And customers did not even pretend that it was a good idea....)

I might also label Unearthed Arcana 3a, Player's Option as 5a (since 6 becomes 5), 3.5 becomes 7a, and Essentials 9a. They are not editions but modifications.

The Auld Grump, who remembers wargame rules with such cheerful chapter titles as 10.7.9... yet still misses Avalon Hill....

 

[Cor_Malek]

1up!

1. D&D

You've asked for it.

There is not DnD.

​

There's a game of imagination, and a bunch of people making stuff up as they go.

[sblock]

[/sblock]​

 

[Umbran]

It was perceived problems with D&D that lead to other games such as Gurps, Tunnels & Trolls, Palladium, Runequest, etc. Even if the perceived problem was that you didn't want to play Fantasy, its still a problem and requires you change how you play and what the rule set was.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the fundamental precept there. You are conflating "I have a problem" with "I have a problem with X".

I like chocolate ice cream. I also like strawberry.

Now, if I have chocolate, but at the moment I want strawberry, I have a problem. Do I have a problem with the air, for not being strawberry? No. Is it a flaw in the pencil on my desk that it is not strawberry? No. Is there something wrong with the next door poodle for not being strawberry? No. None of these things is expected to be strawberry. I still have a problem, but my problem is not with those things.

But the chocolate I do have was never expected to be strawberry, either! Just because it is the thing most like strawberry ice cream, doesn't mean the chocolate is somehow wrong, broken, flawed, or in need of repair. If I have a problem with a thing for not being what it was never designed to be, I am not being reasonable.

To this, I would like to add that you are claiming to know what was going on in the heads of several folks who are not you - specifically a whole lot of game designers. Unless you'd like to claim to be telepathic, you might want to reconsider that assertion.

It is possible to create a new game just to be playful and experiment, without thinking there's anything wrong with games already in existence.

 

[Stormonu]

I'd drop Dragonlance Saga - TSR did not even pretend that it was related to D&D. (And customers did not even pretend that it was a good idea....)

I might also label Unearthed Arcana 3a, Player's Option as 5a (since 6 becomes 5), 3.5 becomes 7a, and Essentials 9a. They are not editions but modifications.

The Auld Grump, who remembers wargame rules with such cheerful chapter titles as 10.7.9... yet still misses Avalon Hill....

Yeah, I never really counted DL SAGA as "D&D", but I figured I'd better throw it in there.

As for UA and PO, I figure they should be treated as editions or you might at well treat the whole of 2E as a "modification".

Essentials, I haven't really seen enough to know for sure, but with the threads I'm seeing with it requiring some "conversion" to be in line with core book 4E, sounds like it could qualify as a variant/edition.

 

[Henry]

I'm happy to out-do that cynicism with idealism.

There is only one D&D. All these different "editions" are just window-dressing for the shared joy of hanging out with friends, killing made-up monsters and taking their imaginary stuff.

Cheers, -- N

If it's all right with you, I'm stealin' this (with attribution) for my new sig!

 

[Echohawk]

I just stumbled across this text written by Gary Gygax in Dragon #103, and thought it was strangle prescient:

A Second Edition is a major undertaking. There are corrections to be made, parts to be meshed, material to be deleted or shifted, and new rules and information to be included in such a work. [...] When it is finished, we will have fewer, but thicker, tomes for your amusement and edification. It is important to add that this task does not preclude later supplements, changes, and yet new editions (a Third, perhaps a Fourth someday). The AD&D game system is vital. It grows, changes, and develops with continuing play and fresh ideas. One day it might attain the point where the rules can be graven in stone, but I don't see that likelihood for some time.

 

[Rel]

I want a pony.

No fair! I wanted that pony!

 

[Deset Gled]

Okay, I'll count the editions like one would count textbook editions

1. Original D&D with hobbits, balrogs, and Ents
2. Original D&D with halflings, Type VI Demons, and Treants
3. Holmes D&D
4. Advanced D&D with a Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual
5. Advanced D&D with new covers (it could count if you say the transition from Dieties & Demigods to Legends & Lore does because of the elimination of Elric and Cthulhu).
6. The Original Basic and Expert Sets. Though this and the next are not part of the direct line instead being an offshoot.
7. The BECMI edition boxsets
8. The D&D Compendium and the brown Basic set that went with it, along with the Wrath of the Immortals Set
9. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition
10. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition with revised books and Skills & Powers (though you could count Skills & Powers separately since you didn't need the core PH to run a game).
11. Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition
12. Dungeons and Dragons 3.5
13. Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition
14. Dungeons and Dragons Essentials

So, 14 editions, maybe 15.

You forgot the Really Quite Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Version 2.71828183 Edition that was released on the internet in the early 90s. It was a set of variant rules, badly edited and combined into a single document. This edition was released on Usenet, so it can be considered published world wide. It also received a cease and desist letter from TSR, so it can be considered formally recognized by that company.

 

[Nifft]

If it's all right with you, I'm stealin' this (with attribution) for my new sig!

Nobody needs my permission to quote me -- but if you want it, you got it.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Whatever.

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