Merging Called Shots into Critical Hits

[Pyrex]

Special Combat Option:

Called Shot:
As a full-round action, make a single attack against an opponent. It must be a melee attack, or a ranged attack up to a distance of 30 ft. You may reduce your attack bonus by a number no greater than your base attack bonus. You add half this humber to the threat range of your weapon. If you score a critical threat, you add half of the number to your roll to confirm the critical.

There's two big problems with this approach.

1) After L5 or so puts Power Attack to shame.

2) It's disproportionally powerful for HighMultiplier weapons compared to HighRange weapons (i.e., it's *far* better when wielding a Pick or Scythe than it is when wielding a Scimitar)

 

[Exen Trik]

Some various ideas I've had so far:


The benefits of high critical range weapons is rather obvious: the get more chances to cause critical hits. They don't need further compensation for alternate critical effects.


Perhaps there should be a rule for weapons doing certain kinds of effects, where piercing weapons can do one set, bludgeoning another, and slashing have reduced abilities for each. Not really a balance issue, it just makes sense that spears won't knock people out and clubs won't gouge out eyes but swords are capable of either. Not sure how to implement that exactly, probably just give piercing and bludgeon weapons a bonus to their respective effects.

...Morningstars and gnome hooked hammers are starting to look much more appealing


If the effects were instead based on saving throws, higher multipliers could increase the DCs by a few points. If you went that route of course, the additional rolls may not be very appealing. But it would be far less trouble than some critical hit tables I've seen.


Another idea is to use the critical multiplier as a kind of critical range within the confirmation roll. For example, trying to attack an arm with a sword would normally result a damaged limb plus normal damage, but with a confirmation roll of a natural 20 you would have a chance to sever it as well. Using an axe a confirmation roll of 19 or 20 would have this effect, and a scythe would be 18-20. This assumes that the confirmation roll would result in a critical hit normally.


And heres some ideas of what effects the various critical shots could have:

Ability score damage (temporary)
Ability score damage (permanent)
Penalty to attack rolls
Penalty to AC
Speed reduction
Bleeding wound
Subdual damage
Dazed/Stunned/other status effects

 

[Kerrick]

The benefits of high critical range weapons is rather obvious: the get more chances to cause critical hits. They don't need further compensation for alternate critical effects.

Agreed.

Perhaps there should be a rule for weapons doing certain kinds of effects, where piercing weapons can do one set, bludgeoning another, and slashing have reduced abilities for each. Not really a balance issue, it just makes sense that spears won't knock people out and clubs won't gouge out eyes but swords are capable of either. Not sure how to implement that exactly, probably just give piercing and bludgeon weapons a bonus to their respective effects.

Rule 1: Common Sense.

Another idea is to use the critical multiplier as a kind of critical range within the confirmation roll. For example, trying to attack an arm with a sword would normally result a damaged limb plus normal damage, but with a confirmation roll of a natural 20 you would have a chance to sever it as well. Using an axe a confirmation roll of 19 or 20 would have this effect, and a scythe would be 18-20. This assumes that the confirmation roll would result in a critical hit normally.

That's an interesting idea... if you roll the confirmation and score a crit again, you could do an increased effect. I'm not sure if you'd want to use the weapon's base threat range, or use the modified one - certainly a weapon with keen, or wielded by someone with Imp Crit, would be more likely do deal massive damage... but in a system like this, it might be a bigger advantage to deal more than just crit damage repeatedly.

And heres some ideas of what effects the various critical shots could have:

Good ideas there. I was thinking a wound to the hand/arm could reduce attack bonus (minor wound) or deal Str damage (greater wound); a wound to the leg reduces speed (minor) or Dex (greater); a torso hit causes fatigue (lesser) or deals Con damage; and a head hit dazes/stuns or deals Int/Wis damage. So there you have several degrees, if you will, of damage - a minor penalty, ability damage, ability drain, and total destruction/loss (bludgeoning weapons would crush the limb to unusability, but wouldn't remove it). In the case of torso/head hits, the highest degree would result in death.

Also, repeated wounds to the same area would (should) stack - say, two or three minor hits to an arm results in ability damage. Cure wounds spells can reverse the penalty, with the level of the spell required being based on the degree of the wound - minor would be cure moderate, damage would be cure serious, and drain would be cure crit. Since this isn't actualy damage/drain like that dealt by a negative energy spell, but "virtual" damage/drain cause by massive trauma, I'd say it could be reversed by simply healing the wound(s). Half of the damage from the spell is also applied to healing the wound.

 

[Kerrick]

The thread's been kinda quiet for the last couple days, and I've been batting the idea around in my head, so I sat down and banged out a quick and dirty system. It occurred to me that we were discussing two different but similar things - critical hits and called shots - so what I did is define the system as being mainly for called shots, but included crits in as an optional rule - they can have the same effects, but since crits are completely random, having additional penalties (like the critical hit tables in 2E) vastly favors the monsters over the PCs.

I also included a rule for creatures that are normally immune to crits - hacking off a zombie's arm or a golem's leg will have some effect, just not as much as it would on a living being. Likewise, bashing a vampire's skull in will kill it, unless it's special.

Anyway, here it is. Let me know what you all think.

 

[Exen Trik]

Alright I've had this on the backburner for a while now, I think I've got something together that works pretty well. Let me know what you think.


Critical Shots: Normally, when a character scores a threat with an attack they have a chance to achieve greater damage on a target with a well placed blow: a critical hit. Using the critical shot rules variant this opportunity can also be used to attack specific areas of the target. Depending on the type and other aspects of the weapon different effects can be achieved this way. When using any of these options, there is a penalty to the critical confirmation roll, as well as a reduction of one multiplier to the damage caused on success. Thus, a x2 weapon does only normal damage with a critical shot, a x3 weapon deals x2, and so on. The available effects depend on the damage type and properties of the weapon used.


Here's a list of the effects I have so far, it's still rather sketchy but it establishes the mechanics. Ideas and comments on this would be much appreciated


Strike Limb: Attacks the targets arm or leg, attempting to disable it. A damaged arm can not be used to wield weapons, hold items, or cast spells. A damaged leg (or similar limb used for movement) causes a reduction in base speed proportional to what fraction of limbs are damaged. These effects last until a number of hit points equal to the attack that caused it is healed. If this attack is made by a slashing weapon and takes the target to 0 hit points or below, the limb is also severed and can only be healed by means of Regeneration, Wish or Miracle.
Requirements: None; Slashing damage type for severing effect
Confirmation Penalty: +4

Note: this should probably work to damage wings as well, but flight is complicated enough as is without figuring out how flying with damaged wings work. Ideas?


Bleeding Wound: Causes a bleeding wound that inflicts an extra point of damage each round until at least one point of damage is healed.
Requirements: Slashing or Piercing damage type
Confirmation Penalty: +2


Daze: Knock the target upside the head, causing disorientation and confusion. The target can only perform either a move action or standard action next round.
Requirements: Bludgeoning damage type
Confirmation Penalty: +2


Impale: The weapon used becomes lodged in the target creature, causing an effect similar to the harpoon in sword and fist. (I forget how that works at the moment, and I don't have the book now :\)
Requirements: Piercing, Weapon must be capable of being set to receive a charge
Confirmation Penalty:+4


Knockback: Force the target backwards 5 feet with a well angled blow to the body.
Requirements: Bludgeoning damage type
Confirmation Penalty: +0


Trip: Any attack that allows trip attempts can also be used to trip on a critical shot. The effect is the same as a normal trip, but is treated as a normal attack rather than a touch attack.
Requirements: Weapon that allows trip attempts or unarmed attack.
Confirmation Penalty: +2

 

[Vrecknidj]

Yeah, this is going to get complex rather quickly.

Players will want to do called shots on a Mind Flayer's tentacles or a Beholder's eye stalks or a creature's tail...

So, the system, whatever it is, has to be flexible enough to handle that. Hitting a Mind Flayer's tentacle might also (depending upon the hit) be a stunning attack if, in addition to hitting the tentacle, the attack also hits the rest of the head hard enough. A Beholder, on the other hand, kinda is a head, and probably isn't going to be knocked silly by a really strong blow to the head.

I like the evolution of all this so far though.

Dave

 

[Kerrick]

Note: this should probably work to damage wings as well, but flight is complicated enough as is without figuring out how flying with damaged wings work. Ideas?

Here's what I came up with for some aerial combat rules I was messing around with...

A creature with maneuverability of less than Perfect loses flying ability the more damage it takes, unless it has innate flight (like a beholder). For every 25% of its hit points it loses, a creature is reduced by one maneuverability class, to a minimum of Clumsy. This represents blood loss, pain, and damage to vital organs (wings and muscles) that hinders the ability to fly. A creature's fly speed is also reduced by 10 feet per 25% of its hit points it loses, to a minimum of 10 feet per round. Again, this does not apply to elementals or creatures with innate flight ability. A creature reduced to less than 25% of its hit points cannot take any actions besides keeping itself in the air, and even then it can move at only half speed and can't perform any aerial maneuvers; a creature reduced to10% of its original hit point total cannot fly at all; if is in the air, it immediately starts to fall.

Obviously, damage directly to the wings (for creatures that use wings) inhibits a creature's ability to fly much more effectively and quickly than damage to the creature as a whole. In this case, attacks against the wings that deal damage are considered to be twice as much for purposes of determining a creature's ability to fly.

A Beholder, on the other hand, kinda is a head, and probably isn't going to be knocked silly by a really strong blow to the head.

More like it doesn't have a head - it has a main eye and a body.

 

[AnonymousOne]

Forgive me if I complicate things...

But ti think a bonus should be given to characters using Weapon Finesse.

Here's my logic. WF implies that a character overcomes the need for brute strength by being extremely careful with their strikes. As such we are talking about a series of strikes which require careful aim and control, rather than simply "Thog hit elf's head with warhammer."

Possession of WF reduced the DC of all strikes by 1.

This could also be used to make classes like the duelist viable. Say that the duelist reduced the DC of the strike by (duelist level/2). This gives the duelist the ability to actually DO something, be a master of completely annoying and stalling strikes.

Just a thought.

 

[Exen Trik]

A Beholder, on the other hand, kinda is a head, and probably isn't going to be knocked silly by a really strong blow to the head.

Oh, I don't know about that. They do resemble large heads, but a lot of that is flesh around the mouth and eye and stalks and such. A 'blow upside the head' in this case would be a good direct hit to the temple, providing a direct path to the otherwise well protected brain. In any case, what matters is that they get hit in such a way as it disorientates them. I should probably change the language of it to be less specific..

Here's what I came up with for some aerial combat rules I was messing around with...
[SNIP]

Looks ok, but still a little complicated. Which is hardly surprising since flight is a rather complicated thing already. All I know is a creature that flies with two wings should get messed up if one is damaged, but shouldn't drop like a rock until both are.

How about this?: If one of two wings are damaged, flight movement across is reduced by half, and must descend at a speed between half and double normal movement.

...a bonus should be given to characters using Weapon Finesse.

I see where you're coming from, but it's not really necessary. This system would favor two kinds of attacks: those with a high critical range, and with high accuracy. A typical duelist type character should have plenty of both. Also, theres a number of effects that could be limited to piecing weapons, and even specific to attacks being made with weapon finesse.

Actually, let me try my hand at one now:

Expose: You deftly manipulate your target with your attack, leaving it vulnerable. The target is treated as flat footed to your next attack, as long as it occurs no later than one round from the time of this attack.
Requirements: Any attack using Weapon Finesse.
Confirmation Penalty: +2