Messin' With Metamagic

[I'm A Banana]

Well, a prevailing opinion is that Metamagic is generally not worth the effort put into it...why spend a slot on a max-damage Magic Missile when you can Fireball for more anyway? And similar questions...

So here's an idea I may have had to fix it:

***Metamagic feats don't increase the level of the spell cast (e.g.: use the same slot). However, you must be able to cast spells of the modified level in order to make use of a metamagic feat. However, they also increase the 'cost' of the spell by 1/2 the level adjustment***

Example: Mialee wants to quicken a magic missile. Quickening a spell usually adds +4 to the level of the spell (making it level 5). In this circumstance, Mialee can't cast the spell until she can cast level 5 spells, but it still uses up a first-level spell slot. It, however, uses up TWO first-level slots (meaning she can't do it as often).

Does this seem to work? Potential tweaks and things welcomed...I'll probably implement this with my new campaign this summer, so words of advice are welcome.

 

[John Hough]

Question: Level 9 wizard, cone of cold vs. empowered fireball. Are you comfortable with having two L3 slots do more damage than you can do with the L5 slot? Or should metmagic also work the old way?

Maximized Cone of Cold: does it cost 2.5 slots or 3? What about the maximized, enlarged Cone of Cold?

Are you comfortable with fighter/sorcerers being able to still spells relatively cheaply?

The way you tell it, that quickened spell should take 3 slots.

I don't think this would really break any of the core feats at least. It does make spellcasters a bit more powerful, but probably not to the point of brokenness, but I'm really not sure about that. The biggest power boost is probably the ability to cast more spells with your best save DC with Heighten. That might be a bit much.

But I'm really not sure.

 

[Gez]

My own idea was that you don't raise the level of the spell by X, but you have to cannibalize a spell slot of level X in addition. This way, if you want to cast a quickened fireball, you won't use a level 7 spell slot, but a level 4 (to fuel the metamagic) and a level 3 (fireball). If you apply several metamagic spells at once, each cannibalize another spell slot.

Furthermore, a wizard could try to spontaneously metamagize a spell (Spellcraft check DC 10 + spell level + metamagic levels, so a quickened empowered fireball would be DC 19).

And the full round/+1 round time necessary for metamagizing on the spot would be avoided by a Spellcraft check, same DC +5.

Sso, if the wizard in the previous example rolls 24 or higher, his quickened empowered fireball is effective; while if he rolls between 19 and 23, he gets a full-round casting that negates the point of quickening but still gets an empowered fireball, and if he rolls 18 or below, he wastes a 4th-level and a 2nd-level slot for naught, and casts a simple fireball as a full-round action.

Wizards and other preparing class that prepare a metamagized spell don't have to do the Spellcraft check, of course. Sorcerers and bards always succeed in applying metamagic, but may roll to avoid the delay.

 

[ichabod]

Well, a prevailing opinion is that Metamagic is generally not worth the effort put into it...why spend a slot on a max-damage Magic Missile when you can Fireball for more anyway? And similar questions...

Hmm, 25 points for sure, or 35 points maybe 18. Not an obvious choice. Especially against rogues and monks

***Metamagic feats don't increase the level of the spell cast (e.g.: use the same slot). However, you must be able to cast spells of the modified level in order to make use of a metamagic feat. However, they also increase the 'cost' of the spell by 1/2 the level adjustment***

As stated by others, how do you round? If you round at all, which it seems you would have to, it would completely change the balance of the metamagic feats. You could use +1's before +2's, but the cost would be the same, and I think cost is the more important factor.

I originally tried an increased spell failure version in my game (for flavor reasons), but that didn't work so well. My current one is that you can only use it on spells you could have used it on with the level mod. You get one free use per day, every successive use requires a key ability check DC 15+spell level. You don't have to prepare it (you can use it on the fly), and spontaneous spell casters get a +2 to the spell craft check.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, that's right, the 1/2 does get wonky...

Okay, I think I like Gez's idea, too...so the new rule would be:

***Metamagic feats don't increase the level of the spell cast (e.g.: use the same slot). However, you must be able to cast spells of the modified level in order to make use of a metamagic feat. Also, you must pay a slot of the spell level that it increases it by.***

So you could only do a quickened magic missile when you could cast 5th level spells, and it would suck up a 4th level and a 1st level slot....

This ditches the wonky 1/2 rule, and still preserves the whole idea of not blowing your highest level slot on a weak spell made pretty.

I'm still not sure if a 4th level slot is worth it, but it's at least somewhat better...

It could also be that they spend slots of that level equal to the level adjustment...I might be comfy with that, too...

 

[John Hough]

I think I liked your original suggestion better. I'd just use half-slots, it's not that much more bookkeeping.

Using a slot of the metamagic level works fine for low levels, but once you start being able to cast higher level spells I'd imagine it stops working so well. Once you can cast 7th level spells, for example, you get to empower your Cones of Cold basically for free. What's a second level slot at that point?

[edit: not thinking]

 

[ruleslawyer]

*Thinks of quickened 9th-level spells and shudders*

Yep, I'll have to go with the original 1/2 spell mechanic.

 

[John Hough]

Well, no, it's not quite that bad, you'd still have to be able to cast a 13th level spell for the quickened 9th. But there's still plenty of room for abusive things in levels 5-8.

 

[fba827]

There was a house rule varient available in Dungeon magazine from the start of this year, I think (one of the first two in which they started giving house rules of the staff for rules varients). It had to do with not needing to prepare metamagiced spells and instead being able to cast them on the fly and without using a higher slot (I think!). But it had a limit on the number of times you could do it and some other stuff...

I can't remember much of it at all (i'm sorry ).. i just recall it had to do with an optional implementation for metamagic ...

I'm just mentioning it in case you have access to it. It may give you a good alternative.

Never been real good at figuring out metamgaic alternates without play testing so I can't really offer much in terms of comments for what you have said here....

 

[Stalker0]

How about this, the number of levels teh metamagic increases it by increases the number of spell slots of that level by the level increase.

So a stilled magic missile would take 2 1st level slots, a quickened one 5 total. An empowered fireball would be 3 3rd level slots, maximized cone of cold 4 4th level, etc.