Metallic Dragons in or out? Looking for confirmation either way

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if anyone can confirm whether or not the metallic dragons are going to appear in the first MM. The reason I ask is because we appear to have two contradictory statements about it:

On the one hand, we have Massawyrm saying "There are no metallics in the MM".

But, on the other hand, we have WotC saying "Every mini from the Desert of Desolation set [which includes a copper dragon] will be in the first 4e MM".

Which statement is correct?

If Massawyrm is right, then WotC is either lying or just isn't paying attention. If WotC is right, then Massawyrm is wrong and there is at least one metallic dragon (the copper) in the first 4e MM.


Here's my theory:
[sblock]1) WotC initially was going to have five chromatic dragons and five metallic dragons, including the new iron and adamantine dragons, in the first 4e MM. Without directly saying so, they seem to suggest this in their Worlds & Monsters preview book.
2) At some stage they find they need to cut some monsters out of the MM, so they choose the metallic dragons. This version of the MM is what gets sent to playtesters like Massawyrm. This also leads them to state that "every DoD mini except one [the copper dragon] will be in the first 4e MM".
3) However, later on WotC then finds that they can put at least one metallic, if not some or all of them, back in the first 4e MM. This leads them to revise their statement about the DoD minis set to "every mini will be in the MM".
4) Unfortunately, they do not send playtesters like Massawyrm an updated MM, so when the NDA is lifted, Massawyrm (perhaps not realizing he is now using an "outdated" version of the 4e MM) makes his statement about there being no metallics in the MM.[/sblock]

Thoughts?


Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Jonathan

 

[arscott]

Just to point out: They said every monster but one.

The copper dragon might be the exception.

 

[pukunui]

Just to point out: They said every monster but one.

The copper dragon might be the exception.

Yeah, that's what they said at first ... but at some point they changed their minds and started telling us that all of them would be in the MM after all. Here's proof: new rulebook (see the last paragraph, the one that starts "And remember ...").

That's why I theorized that the metallics were going to be left out at one point, coinciding with the point in the development process at which Massawyrm was given his metallics-less playtest MM, but then later at least one of them (the copper) was put back in.

 

[Howndawg]

The only dragons being left out of the MM are Brass and Bronze. There will be two new metallics: Iron and Adamantine. This has been confirmed in Worlds and Monsters.

 

[arscott]

Mmm, I'd say that W&M was pretty unclear on the subject. It could be read that all of the (partially new) core ten were in, only the five chromatics, or somewhere in between. It was certainly written before the monster list was finalized (the book admits as much) and I think written before they were saying "all but one" on the Minis front.

I'd certainly prefer to have the metallics in, though. And given the new delineation between the two families, I'd honestly rather see the metallics than the chromatics--I prefer my dragons more social.

 

[Mirtek]

There will be two new metallics: Iron and Adamantine.

Actually these aren't new.

 

[Cam Banks]

Actually these aren't new.

What they will actually be is new, but there have been other kinds of "iron dragon" and "adamantine dragon" in D&D before. Just like there's been "dragonborn" before, even though the 4e ones aren't like those.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Intrope]

This *could* be a canary trap, too: every playtest group could have been given a different set of monsters (they probably statted up more than they could print in MM I; after all, some monsters will turn out to just not work, the layout might change, requiring some cuts, etc.). If so, then any leaking playtester could reveal who they are by what they post! for example, if I leak the 'Kobold Anklebiter' and 'Goblin Kneecapper' then they can look up who got a playtest doc with both of those in it.

Given that they do have a content management system, that might not even be all that hard.

Note that I have exactly *zero* knowledge of whether they actually did this--it just seems like the obvious way to catch leakers.

 

[Jhaelen]

Mmm, I'd say that W&M was pretty unclear on the subject. It could be read that all of the (partially new) core ten were in, only the five chromatics, or somewhere in between. It was certainly written before the monster list was finalized (the book admits as much) and I think written before they were saying "all but one" on the Minis front.

This.
I seem to remember a thread about the 4E draconomicon, where it was mentioned that the metallic dragons wouldn't be in MM1. I'm not sure if someone with insider infos wrote it, though.

I expect them to not be in MM1, though. And frankly I don't care much about them anymore, either. The main reason for their existance was to serve as 'good-aligned mirror images' of the chromatic dragons. With the alignment restrictions on chromatics being lifted, they become redundant.

 

[Ondo]

The main reason for their existance was to serve as 'good-aligned mirror images' of the chromatic dragons. With the alignment restrictions on chromatics being lifted, they become redundant.

Every type of dragon beyond the first is somewhat redundant, and the first metallic seems a lot less redundant than the fifth chromatic.