Metamagic question

[Rkhet]

Aha, how many rays in a twinned-repeated-split-rayed polar ray?

 

[NimrodvanHall]

Aha, how many rays in a twinned-repeated-split-rayed polar ray?

somewhere between 4 and 8

if the order in witch the feats are aplied matters, i'd say,
base+twinned, +split = 3
plus as repeat
base +twined = 2
sum 5 rays

with a split, twinned reapeated ray i'd say:
(base + split) *2 = 4
plus as reapeat
(base + split) *2 = 4
sum 8 rays

I'd just wished wizzards would give a rule for the order to aply metamagic feats.

 

[Mistwell]

The following feats are repeated here for discussion purposes only, and are incomplete in that they do not include the prerequisities.

Split Ray:

Your ray spells can affect an additional target
You can cayse any ray spell to fire one additional ray beyond th enumber norally allowed. The additional ray requires a separate ranged touch attack roll to hit and deals damage as normal. It can be fired at the same target as the first ray or at a different target, but all rays must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously. A split ray uses a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Twin Spell:

You can simultaneously cast a single spell twice. Casting a twinned spell causes the spell to take effect twice in the same area or on the same target simultaneously. Any variable characteristics (including attack rolls) or decisions you would make about the spell (including target and area), are applied to both spells, with affected creatures receiving all the effetcs of each spell individually (including getting two saving throws if applicable). A spell whose effetcs wouldn't stack if it was cast twice under normal circumstances will create redundant effects if successfully twinned (see Combining Magical Effetcs, page 171 of the Player's Handbook). For example, a twinned charm person doesn't create a more potent or long-lasting effect, but any ally of the target would have to succeed on two dispel attempts in order to free the target from the charm. As with other metamagic feats, twinning a spell does not affect its vulnerability to counterspelling, so a single successful counterspell negates both instances of a twinned spell. A twinned spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Sudden Maximize

You can cast a spell to maximum effect without special preparation.
Once per day, you can apply the effect of the Maximize Spell feat to any spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time. You can still use Maximize Spell normally if you have it.

 

[apsuman]

I haven't been here in a looong time. But I go back to Eric's grandmother, and for what is worth it has always been the consensus that metamagic feats each effect the base spell independently of each other. Now, I haven't been here in a while so that consensus might have changed.

So, I vote for

One instance of Enervation at maximized potential, plus one more at normal potency from the twin spell, plus one more at normal potency from split ray.


g!

 

[Pyrex]

I protest your assertion that consensus has been reached on this particular topic.

If metamagic feats are not multiplicative (don't affect each other); doesn't a Widened Energy Substituted (Cold) Fireball become a little silly? Or do you think that 20' of cold damage surrounded by another 20' of Fire damage is the intended outcome?

What about an Extended Energy Substitued (Cold) Maximized Acid Arrow? If the feats don't interact at all it'd have to deal a combination of Maximized([cold + acid]) for the original duration the Rolled([acid]) for the Extended portion. -> Any other interpretation means they stack...

 

[DreamChaser]

If a feat affects the same dimension (say damage for empower and maximize) then they should not stack. If they affect different dimensions (say area, range, damage, and energy type) then there is nothing to stack.

A split spell changes the effect (one ray becomes 2).

Twin spell changes hmmm...all effects (one spell becomes 2).

Maximize changes variables (generally damage).

by definition then, twin has to be attached last because it modifies all spell effects. For split and maximize, it doesn't matter because they are not affecting the same thing. For the single spell (say Enervation) the Effect is changed from 1 ray to 2 rays and the variable 1d4 negative levels is changed to 4 negative levels. Then twin is added in and the same spell happens again.

That's how I'd interpret it anyway.

DC

 

[Thanee]

Somewhere else I have seen an interesting note, that Twin Spell might very well not work with ray spells, because it specifies 'target' and 'area', but not 'effect'.

Bye
Thanee