Metamagic Rods question

[0-hr]

Could a Lesser Rod of Maximization be used on a Fireball spell that the cast had already empowered with his own feat? This is a third level spell, but it is currently taking up a 5th level slot.

The lesser rods can be used on spells of 3rd level or lower, but I'm thinking they probably mean spells in third level slots or lower.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I think you are right, it is probably spell slot level not spell level.

 

[Thanee]

Empowered Fireball is a 5th level spell. It just has the save DC of a 3rd level spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Empowered Fireball is a 3rd-level spell, using a 5th-level slot. You still have the Save DC's of 3rd-level, you still won't overcome a minor globe of invulnerability, and you won't hit a Rakshasa with an Empowered Empowered Empowered Fireball.

as to whether the rod would work: it's not entirely clear, but by the spirit of the rules the answer should be no.

 

[kreynolds]

as to whether the rod would work: it's not entirely clear, but by the spirit of the rules the answer should be no.

I agree.

 

[Thanee]

Empowered Fireball is a 3rd-level spell, using a 5th-level slot. You still have the Save DC's of 3rd-level, you still won't overcome a minor globe of invulnerability, and you won't hit a Rakshasa with an Empowered Empowered Empowered Fireball.

Yep, my above post is just wrong!

(Silent Spell example, p. 78 PHB)
The cost of doing so, is that in preparing the spell, she must use up a spell slot one level higher than the spell actually is. If she prepares charm person as a silent spell, it takes up one of her 2nd-level slots. It is still, however, only a 1st-level spell.

Well actually, after looking at T&B, I'm sure you can maximize an empowered fireball with a lesser rod!

(p. 75 T&B)
A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any give spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with the character's personal metamagic feats. In this case, only those latter feats (if any) adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

That just says that you can generally combine metamagic from rods and your own. So you can empower your still silent magic missile with the minor rod. And it uses a 3rd-level slot, not a 5th, as an empowered still silent mm usually would.

 

[Thanee]

It still leaves room for interpretation, but I think that it is meant that way, really.

It also makes sense, in a way, since the limit is still there, that you can only alter "weak" spells with the lesser rod.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yea. I have also said that it's ambiguous (what would we do if the rules would all be crystal clear? That would be time for despair ;-)) but the spirit of the rules is that it won't work. It's also good to rule it thus balance-wise.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I'll will just repost your quote, Thanee, with emphasis.

(p. 75 T&B)
A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any give spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with the character's personal metamagic feats. In this case, only those latter feats (if any) adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.

As I wrote above it is spell slot level, not spell level.