Metamorphosis (phasm) + Metamorphic Transfer

[Thatwackyned]

This is an awesome combo, my question is; with what feats in the DnD srds can a Druid, Wizard, Priest do the same.

A Druid become a Pit Fiend.
A Wizard become a Pit Fiend.
A Priest become a Pit Fiand.

or anyother more powerful creature.

 

[Thatwackyned]

A Druid can do it if they go into PrC for wildshape. A Wizard can do it if he goes into a PrC for Polymorph. Not to sure if a Cleric can change in a powerful form. Just wondering if the process can be speed up through spells or feats, just like the psion.

 

[Thatwackyned]

I guess not

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Even if all of these are rules-legal, I don't think most people would want to play in a game with a DM that allowed it, so IMHO it's not even worth taking the time to think about.

Have you tried posting on the wotc boards? I think they still have a "theoretical optimization" thread to talk about things that could never be allowed in an actual game, like pun-pun.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Even if all of these are rules-legal, I don't think most people would want to play in a game with a DM that allowed it, so IMHO it's not even worth taking the time to think about.

Have you tried posting on the wotc boards? I think they still have a "theoretical optimization" thread to talk about things that could never be allowed in an actual game, like pun-pun.

How is turning into a pit fiend by way of a phasm even close to Pun-Pun, or theoretical ops in general? It seems amazing at first glance, yes, but remember the phasm has the ability Alternate Form, which is severely limited in what transfers over. Take a look at the Alternate Form rules:

• The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
• The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
• The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
• The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
• The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
• The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
• The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
• Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
• The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
• The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
• Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

(Emphasis mine.)

-------------------------

So, the "Pit Fiend aka Phasm" stat block would look something like this:

Size/Type:
Large Aberration (Shapechanger)

Hit Dice:
15d8+30 (97 hp)

Initiative:
+12

Speed:
40 ft. (8 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)

Armor Class:
22 (-1 size, +8 Dex, +5 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 14

Base Attack/Grapple:
+18/+23

Attack:
Slam +19 melee (1d3+14)

Full Attack:
Slam +19 melee (1d3+14)

Space/Reach:
10 ft./10 ft.

Special Attacks:
--

Special Qualities:
Alternate form, amorphous, resilient, scent, telepathy 100 ft., tremorsense 60 ft.

Saves:
Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +11

Abilities:
Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 14

Skills:

Feats:
Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility

Compare to the real Pit Fiend:

Size/Type:
Large Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)

Hit Dice:
18d8+144 (225 hp)

Initiative:
+12

Speed:
40 ft. (8 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)

Armor Class:
40 (-1 size, +8 Dex, +23 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 32

Base Attack/Grapple:
+18/+35

Attack:
Claw +30 melee (2d8+13)

Full Attack:
2 claws +30 melee (2d8+13) and 2 wings +28 melee (2d6+6) and bite +28 melee (4d6+6 plus poison plus disease) and tail slap +28 melee (2d8+6)

Space/Reach:
10 ft./10 ft.

Special Attacks:
Constrict 2d8+26, fear aura, improved grab, spell-like abilities, summon devil

Special Qualities:
Damage reduction 15/good and silver, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to fire and poison, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, regeneration 5, see in darkness, spell resistance 32, telepathy 100 ft.

Saves:
Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +21

Abilities:
Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 26

Skills:
Balance +10, Bluff +29, Climb +34, Concentration +29, Diplomacy +10, Disguise +29 (+31 acting), Hide +25, Intimidate +31, Jump +40, Knowledge (arcana) +29, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (the planes) +29, Knowledge (religion) +29, Listen +29, Move Silently +29, Search +29, Spellcraft +31, Spot +29, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes, +10 when tracking), Tumble +31

Feats:
Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (fireball)

---------------------

Doesn't look so bad now, does it?

 

[Starbuck_II]

Um, doesn't the pit Fiend have more than 5 Natural armor?
Your example (Phasm) Pit fiend has 5?
Why did you not give it the full amount?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

How is turning into a pit fiend by way of a phasm even close to Pun-Pun, or theoretical ops in general?

Oh, there's no comparison in broken-ness between this and pun-pun. I was just using pun-pun as an example of what would be in theoretical optimization because most people recognize that build, it's "famous." I'm not familiar with the Phasm, if it is 15 HD, then maybe this combo isn't so bad since it can't be done till level 15 (or slightly earlier if you can swing effective ML boosters). Still, I noticed the phasm pit fiend only has one natural weapon instead of all of them. Why?

"The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form."

So it should have the full natural armor and attack routine of the pit fiend. As well as constrict, improved grab, and poison.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Here is what the Phasm should be: you devalued the grapple, attack bonus, AC, and special attacks (extraordinary)

[code]
Size/Type:
Large Aberration (Shapechanger)
 
Hit Dice:
15d8+30 (97 hp)
 
Initiative:
+12
 
Speed:
40 ft. (8 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)
 
Armor Class:
AC 40 (-1 size, +8 Dex, +23 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 22
 
Base Attack/Grapple:
+11 (-1 size +modified = 23)/+15 ( modified =+28 )
 
Attack:
Claw +23 (2d8+13) or Slam +23 melee (1d4+14)
 
Full Attack:
2 claws +23 melee (2d8+13) and 2 wings +18 melee (2d6+6) and bite +18 melee (4d6+6 plus poison) and tail slap +18 melee (2d8+6)
Slam +18 melee (1d4+14)
 
Space/Reach:
10 ft./10 ft.
 
Special Attacks:
Constrict 2d8+26, improved grab, 
 
Special Qualities:
Alternate form, amorphous, resilient, scent, telepathy 100 ft., tremorsense 60 ft.
 
Saves:
Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +11
 
Abilities:
Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 14
Skills:
 
Feats:
Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility

 

[Starbuck_II]

Double post

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Good work, Starbuck. Minor error: the disease is supernatural, so you don't get that.

EDIT: Also, you shouldn't be getting the special qualities, should you?