Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I really like the simplicity of this system, but aren't spellcasters getting completely hosed? If casting spells costs 1+spell level hp and your total hp = Str + level, that pretty much restricts your ability to cast high level spells. Sure you can cast a lot of low-level spells, but you'll be resting constantly if you try to cast higher-level spells.

 

[Darrell]

I really like the simplicity of this system, but aren't spellcasters getting completely hosed? If casting spells costs 1+spell level hp and your total hp = Str + level, that pretty much restricts your ability to cast high level spells. Sure you can cast a lot of low-level spells, but you'll be resting constantly if you try to cast higher-level spells.

Actually, hp = STR + 1d6/level now.

Assuming a 13th-level mage (minimum level to cast 7th-level spells) of average STR (10) with median hit points per level (say, an average of 3 hp/level x 13 + a total of 39 hp):

39 + 10 = 49 hp total

The mage would be able to cast 5 7th-level spells, and still have a 9 hp reserve to keep himself from passing out or whatever. In a similar vein, he'd be able to cast 9 4th-level or 11 3rd-level spells, still keeping reserve hp; and that's not figuring in a spell-level mix-and-match of high and low-level spells to maximize the effect. That seems quite fair, as far as I'm concerned...though I'll grant you, I tend to favor lower-magic campaigns.

I'd hardly consider that being 'hosed,' since the other classes are similarly 'de-powered' in Microlite20. It's that level of simplicity that's leading my group to move toward using it instead of D&D for our weekly games. We tried it last week, and have had two 'last-minute' games since then (and a spur-of-the-moment game is so easy with Microlite20), and are liking it more and more.

The only situations that have come up have regarded Turning Undead (something my players want to do) and wanting to customize a character's skills a bit more.

I'm working on the first situation still, and solved the second by simply giving a character 2 extra skill points at character creation to be assigned as bonuses to skills; either both to one skill (giving a +2 bonus) or to two different skills, getting a +1 to each.

Regards,
Darrell

 

[Nadaka]

Turn undead could be "fixed" by adding it as a first level cleric spell.

 

[Darrell]

Turn undead could be "fixed" by adding it as a first level cleric spell.

I'd thought about that, but it bugs me that only clerics can Turn Undead (it's always bugged me, as far back as OD&D). I'm thinking about making it a type of ability usable by anyone with faith in the holy symbol used. That way it's more in line with "classic" vampire movies/stories, where the victim (or, more commonly, her boyfriend/romantic interest) could pick up a cross and drive Dracula away. I'm just mulling over how I'd like it to work, and how to express it in a way simple enough to be compatible with Microlite20. Right now, I'm leaning toward linking it to the 'Magic Attack Bonus' in the Microlite20 rules.

Regards,
Darrell

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Actually, hp = STR + 1d6/level now.

Ahhh, that fixes the problem then.

 

[greywulf]

Right now, I'm leaning toward linking it to the 'Magic Attack Bonus' in the Microlite20 rules.

I'd be inclined to go with a variation on this theme: Have a 1st level "Turn Undead" spell for Clerics where you roll Magic Attack bonus to turn, DC = critter's current Hit Points. That makes for cool tactical options - do we hit first to weaken it and turn later, or turn first? It's kinda cool to be able to fight down Huge Undead then explode him with a good Turn check

I'd also allow certain items of Religious Significance let anyone with the faith Turn Undead - in effect, they'll have their own internal HP that can be used to fuel the Turn Undead spell. The internal HP dictates how many times per day it can be used. The Magical Attack bonus of the wielder is used at all times.

Clerics would prize these very highly as they also give them free use of Turn Undead per day too, of course.

Example: Sun Shield of Pelor: able to cast Turn Undead, 6 HP (allowing use of Turn Undead 3/day), +2 AC, usable by Clerics of Pelor without Proficiency. Grants a +2 to Magic Attack bonus for Turn checks.

As to the Monsters, you've done it again, Darrell I've put this up on http://home.greywulf.net/m20 as a supplement. I'm inclined to keep the critters in the core rules too, at least for now, just so it's "complete" in two pages. I reserve the right to change my mind, of course!

We playtested having spells cost Hit Points = double spell level + 1 (0=1,1=3,2=5,7,9,etc) last night and it works very well, especially at higher levels of play. Our 1st level Mage with 15 Hit Points let loose 3 Magic Missiles against the Kobolds in the Burning Plague (our usual playtest 1st level 'venture) before pulling back to cower behind the Fighter, and still had 6 Hit Points to spare. Amazingly, he survived too

On the higher level test (15th level characters vs. a red dragon and his troll minions), the Mage with about 72 Hit Points used 3 8th level Incendiary Clouds (total HP cost 51) to decimate the trolls. Nasty. Of course, that only left him with 21 HP to face the young Red. He died pretty quickly afterwards - he should have used just one Incendiary Clouds and kept the rest in reserve for the Big Fight.

That's what I like about Microlite20 though - it gives choices like this back to the player, rather than limiting the tactics based on spell slots.

I'm going to put the Spell Cost to "double spell level + 1" next time I update it.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

 

[MeepoDM]

That's what I like about Microlite20 though - it gives choices like this back to the player, rather than limiting the tactics based on spell slots.

I'm going to put the Spell Cost to "double spell level + 1" next time I update it.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

Huzzah! A level 15 Wizard would normally only cast a single 8th level spell, but he also wouldn't be setting himself up for a possible death and a certain need for bed rest. Choices, choices! This is the kind of strategy I like to see, not obsessing over which square gives the least amount of probability of giving an AoO!

Speaking of bed rest, does the 8 hours of sleep fully recover our hero in the situation above? Well, at least any HP loss from spellcasting, that is.

I wasn't overly fond of the 1d6 HP/level rule, though I think it does work well with the new spellpoint formula, and I do have to admit it was sorely needed for higher level games. The above Wizard would have only had himself 27-ish HP's otherwise!

 

[greywulf]

Speaking of bed rest, does the 8 hours of sleep fully recover our hero in the situation above? Well, at least any HP loss from spellcasting, that is.

Yep, 8 hours of rest recovers all loss due to spell-casting. One of my players is pushing for getting half of it back if he rests for 4 hours, but I'm holding out on that one for now

 

[MeepoDM]

Hahaha! Nice move on your part!

What do you think of having the Fighter's ability of +1/+1 being scalable? Maybe something as minor as level 1-10 (as it is now) and 11-20 (+2/+2)? Just to keep him from falling behind the damage scale so rapidly.

Also, how exactly does the Magic attack bonus = MIND bonus + Level rule work? I understand the concept, but in regular D&D this is usually automatic with the monster having the spell cast on him rolling a Saving Throw. Is this rule used for any form of attack spell?

Meepo

Re: Your 11/2's blog post footnote (no threadjacking and no political arguements please!). I agree 100% and many of us (Americans) do as well. Thanks for not lumping us all into one group! Wish us luck tomorrow

 

[Thanee]

Only browsed through this quickly. Nice work, greywulf.

If I understand correctly, hps are now +1d6 per level not just +1 per level, right? That's better. Even on a quick browsing that part looked really horrible.

I would probably make it a flat +4 or +6 hit points per level.

And you should make spellcasting cost 1/level (making 0 level free).

At higher levels, a Mage should be able to do a little more than one encounter and then cower. That's not fun.

Being unable to heal the loss will still make things really dangerous, when too many spells are cast.


One question... why only three stats and not four? One for each skill, one for each class.

CHA is missing.

Bye
Thanee