Microsoft Buying Vivendi (Blizzard)?!?!?!

[Lazybones]

Don't get me wrong, I've played and loved many Blizzard titles, but it seems like all their games are starting to blend together for me. Maybe I've played too many RTS titles, and NWN has ruined me for Diablo-clones. Click. Kill. Click. Kill. Ooh, +27 sword. Click. Kill. Click. Kill. Town Portal. Buy potions. Click. Kill.

I never got beyond the third or fourth mission in Warcraft III. It's just all the same. Build base. Collect resources. Set up defense to hold off inevitable enemy rushes. Build a hundred of your best units. Rush enemy. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. It's been the same from Dune, through Command and Conquer, Red Alert, Warcraft, Warcraft II, Starcraft, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires I, II, and III (AoM). Now Warcraft III. Even as far back as Herzog Zwei for the Genesis (anyone remember THAT ancient gem?).

At this point, I split my time between NWN and FPS games like Battlefield 1942.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Microsoft wont be the only company abandoning the PC gaming market. The PC market keeps shrinking while the console market grows by leaps and bounds.

I bought an XBOX just so I would not have to buy a new PC to get my gaming fix in. I can rent games, which is good becasue I get bored with them and have a growing choice of games, while PC games require expensive hardware.

 

[Mortaneus]

It's just all the same. Build base. Collect resources. Set up defense to hold off inevitable enemy rushes. Build a hundred of your best units. Rush enemy. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. It's been the same from Dune, through Command and Conquer, Red Alert, Warcraft, Warcraft II, Starcraft, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires I, II, and III (AoM).

I disagree with Age of Mythology. If you try just building a single unit, you're going to get annihilated by a someone who knows how to manipulate the rock-paper-scissors setup the game has. Plus, getting through layers of walls and towers can be tough. Age of Mythology is more about proper resource management, and making the best use of your population maximums than about just mindlessly flinging hordes at your enemies.

I agree regarding Warcraft III, though. The upkeep rules help a bit, but not much.

Originally posted by KnowTheToe
The PC market keeps shrinking while the console market grows by leaps and bounds.

Personally, this really worries me. I detest gamepads, and prefer to play on a mouse anyday. Is PC gaming going to go the way of arcades, where only a few types (driving, shooting, and fighting) of games survive? I certainly hope not. Console games are generally dumbed down, partially to fit on a controller, and partially for the kids market.

I want incredibly complex games like Black & White, Arcanum, and MOO2, which you'll never see on a console.

Besides, as I said, I refuse to buy micro$oft products. If nothing else, in reply to what they did to Halo and Oni.

 

[kenjib]

One of the biggest problem with console games to me is that they don't use a keyboard (though I also prefer mouse to gamepad). This requires a dumbing down of some games -- networked games most notably, in which you lose the singlemost important feature of the game that differentiates the game from standard games: social interaction. How could you possibly enjoy a MMORPG, for instance, without a keyboard?

 

[Ristamar]

Originally posted by Mortaneus Personally, this really worries me. I detest gamepads, and prefer to play on a mouse anyday. Is PC gaming going to go the way of arcades, where only a few types (driving, shooting, and fighting) of games survive?

PC games aren't going anywhere. That being said, I doubt the industry will be nearly as active as it was during the boom of recent years for quite some time.

Console games are generally dumbed down, partially to fit on a controller, and partially for the kids market.

*sigh* Why can't sentiments like this just fade from exisitence? The world would be a better place.

Yes, RTS' are difficult to do on a console, as are flight sims, or any game that excessively uses hotkeys. FPS, too, can be tricky without a mouse, which is why the PC games won't disappear, unless console developers start including a keyboard and a mouse as a more common interface (which is a definite possibility now that online gaming is creeping into the console market).

Regardless, I think the statements 'dumbed down' and 'for the kids' aren't very justifiable these days. More often than not, the developers should be blamed for bad PC ports instead of pointing fingers at the medium.

I want incredibly complex games like Black & White, Arcanum, and MOO2, which you'll never see on a console.

Funny you mention that, since Black & White will be on the XBOX in the future.

Besides, as I said, I refuse to buy micro$oft products. If nothing else, in reply to what they did to Halo and Oni.

I wasn't too thrilled about the Halo situation, either.

 

[MythosaAkira]

One of the biggest problem with console games to me is that they don't use a keyboard (though I also prefer mouse to gamepad). This requires a dumbing down of some games -- networked games most notably, in which you lose the singlemost important feature of the game that differentiates the game from standard games: social interaction.

I see a potential for social interaction more with a console, since you can have multiple people playing easily at the same time in the same place. PCs pretty much restrict you to one player, and "social interaction" in most on-line games tends to equate to being attacked and berated by 13-year olds who have "l33t skillz".

How could you possibly enjoy a MMORPG, for instance, without a keyboard?

The people who pick up EverQuest for the PS2 will be able to best answer that shortly. I would imagine that adding a keyboard to a console wouldn't be that difficult. If they can have a $200 Mech control system for the Xbox, a keyboard would be child's play.

That said, I have to say that the best single-player RPG I've ever played has been Morrowind on the Xbox. I've played it on the PC as well, and I can't say that the translation to the console made it "dumbed down". It's not necessarily better on the Xbox (though I found the UI actually to be a little easier to navigate there), but it's a good example of what *can* be done on a console.

 

[MythosaAkira]

Originally posted by Ristamar
PC games aren't going anywhere. That being said, I doubt the industry will be nearly as active as it was during the boom of recent years for quite some time.

One thing to consider is that consoles may be more attractive to developers, since they know that they are dealing with "known" hardware. One guy's PS2 or XBox is going to be the same as someone else's, whereas with PCs you have different OS's, video cards, sound cards, controllers, etc. Granted, things like DirectX are supposed to help you so you don't have to worry about those things, but we all know how true *that* is.

FPS, too, can be tricky without a mouse, which is why the PC games won't disappear, unless console developers start including a keyboard and a mouse as a more common interface

I can see a keyboard (with perhaps a built-in trackball rather than a separate mouse) coming about as more involved games come on the scene. But I don't think you need them for an FPS. I was used to the keyboard/mouse combination for shooters, but once I got the hang of Halo, it wasn't that hard to use the controller. There was a learning curve, but it's not that hard to get used to.

 

[Mortaneus]

But I don't think you need them for an FPS. I was used to the keyboard/mouse combination for shooters, but once I got the hang of Halo, it wasn't that hard to use the controller. There was a learning curve, but it's not that hard to get used to.

I'm a big FPS fan, and I absolutely detest controllers for FPS games. I have three major reasons:

1. You can't rotate quickly enough, or precisely enough. Your rotation speed is limited by the edge of the analog stick, while on a mouse, it's limited by how fast you can move it.

2. Aiming on a mouse is more much more intuitive for me, and more precise. It's the reason why people used to use the mouse on Tie Fighter and X-Wing, because it gives you much better control than a joystick.

3. Not enough buttons. Take, for instance, Jedi Knight 2. I want to be able, with a single key/button push, activate any force power I want, without having to cycle through them.

Controllers also severely limit the level designers. If you read the info on Halo for the PC, they're talking about adding levels not on the console, because a mouse allows for much freer vertical aiming, and thus they can make the levels more vertically oriented. Look at console FPSs. All the level designs are specifically built to be as flat as possible, and require little vertical aiming. There's a reason for this. I tend to think in three-dimensions, and the levels on console FPSs are way too flat for my taste.

The only FPS that I can stand playing on a console is Metroid Prime, and that's because they made the incredibly smart move of adding an accurate auto-aim. Unfortunally, that tactic only really works for single-player games.

 

[jdavis]

I don't think any of this will be a problem in the near future, as far as not supporting the Monopoly (microsoft) well you will probably be in trouble in the future or missing out on some stuff, that's sort of the definition of a monopoly, of course is Sony really that much smaller of a company? Is Microsoft doing anything that Sony didn't do when they beat off Nintendo and totally crushed SEGA?

I don't see PC ports on games going away because that isn't really their competition for the X-box, they want PC's to stay mainstream and important (that's where their monopoly is, X-box is loosing millions). Now if you are worried about these games not being ported to the Playstation 2 or the Game Cube, well then that is a problem. If PC's become less important then Windows becomes less important, then the monopoly becomes less important, then Microsoft looses money, and gameplay is a driving force behind the PC. Microsoft makes computer games too, Age of Empires, Flight Simulator, etc.... They would just be adding to this portion of their business.

 

[jdavis]

Great. It got moved to software. Now this thread will proceed to die, as practically nobody ever reads this forum.

It's annoying that's it's become impossible to discuss very pertinent gaming topics on ENWorld when they have to do with software and computers because they always get moved here, and proceed to croak.

Think of it this way. on the general board it would slide to page 5 or 6 within a day or two and be gone, here it will linger for weeks on the first page and will be seen by people who actually care. Most people on a D&D board just don't care about Microsoft (go figure...), if they do then they will be the ones to see this here. When you say evil empire on the first page it is considered to mean WOTC, here we all know it's Microsoft (the real evil empire).