[Midnight] Campaign Idea

[wolff96]

I like the idea of bringing back the old gods only to find out they are even worse than Izrador. Now that is dark.

I have to admit I like this idea.

After all, the only people alive that even have a CHANCE of remembering the other old gods are the Witch Queen, Izrador himself, and possibly one or two of the trapped extraplanars.

Perhaps Izrador got his butt kicked out of heaven not because he was evil... just because he was the weakest and least of the gods. He pulled down the veil to protect himself from complete destruction...

Or perhaps there were good gods at some point... and they lost the war when their allies against Izrador (who was something like the Greyhawk Tharizdun at the height of his power) turned on them... leaving only evil gods in existance.

 

[Cardhu]

...

Following that comparison, a natural goal of a Midnight campaign would be to cast the PCs in the "Earendil role"; that of seeking out the old gods and returning them to Aryth to end Izrador's reign of terror.

I realize this kinda defeats the purpose of the "we're so dark and grim" vibe of the setting ...

So, does this sound like an interesting take on Midnight ....

J-Dawg, I like your idea a lot.

I frankly don't understand the recent trend for campaign settings being so "dark," "grim," and (by any degree of realism) utterly hopeless.

For me, playing D&D only has a point if there's some reasonable hope of making a difference for the better.

I've been playing in the Midnight campaign setting for some months. Previously, I've played in the World of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms.

I perceive (and these are my personal perceptions, so please let no-one take offense) very serious detractions in the Midnight campaign:

- Elves and dwarves are very limited in the settings in which they can be played;

- Clerical classes have uncertain access to powers;

- Magic and magic items are serious liabilities far more than aids, identifying oneself as an enemy and attracting attention;

- Success and character advancement eventually draws overwhelming force.

I see the Midnight campaign as the "Fellowship of the Ring - Lost." There is no balance left. The human kingdoms are conquered, the elven and dwarven kingdoms are doomed, and what resistance remains is being systematically hunted down and exterminated.

The future of the Midnight world is the inevitable eradication of all good and the total collapse of literacy, crafts, and commerce. A truly dark age of small impoverished communities eking out a bare subsistence survival with no prospect for Renaissance.

Unless balance can be restored, I personally find the Midnight campaign a singularly pointless game setting.

 

[wayne62682]

I frankly don't understand the recent trend for campaign settings being so "dark," "grim," and (by any degree of realism) utterly hopeless.

For me, playing D&D only has a point if there's some reasonable hope of making a difference for the better.

Amen.

I like the OP's idea. I've read through some of Midnight and while I like the setting, I hate the whole "you can never restore peace" garbage; it totally turns me off from ever playing it.. when the designers flat out say they won't publish stats for the big baddie because they never want you to be able to defeat him, I have to question why bother playing at all then? To see how long you can survive? To "win" by establishing a small pocket of resistance that realistically will get obliterated within a year? That would be a lovely epilogue.. (sarcasm): "Thus, across the land a small flicker of hope was restored. Men from [insert various lands] journeyed to [another place] to join the Army of Light. But sadly, their dreams were for naught. Years later the Shadow's army met them on the field of battle and annihilated them utterly. A meager force can never oppose the might of Izrador. Game Over."

The whole point of playing a hero in D&D is so you CAN start from humble beginnings, raise a grand army and destroy the great evil that has covered the land for the past x many years. Midnight takes that concept, the very foundation of D&D itself, away by trying to portray a world where no matter what you do, barring some ridiculous DM fiat, you can't defeat the evil and you can never make the world better. I would actually enjoy playing this campaign under someone like you (the OP), who wanted the end of it to be the destruction/banishment of Izrador and the restoration of peace to the world.

 

[Yair]

I like the Midnight setting. I never accepted the premise of playing it as a "lost" war, however. I always took the bleak setting as an opportunity to achieve an epic victory. I never played out such a story, however. I'm currently planning a Midnight/Iron-Heroes game that will feature pretty mundane wars against the Shadow, wars that will culminate in the side of good triumphant (if all goes well). My Midnight will be less hopeless and less magical than the official one.

The idea of finding a way to pierce the veil covering Midnight and bring back the Old Gods is certainly one of my favorites too. Another good idea is to go the path of the Shaman, discovering a way to work shamanic (rather than divine) magic in the world, a force that counterbalances the divine magic of Izrador. Or Psionics, for a similar effect, but a bit less fitting to the setting.

The idea that all is basically lost and at best you can delay the end, which is what the official Midnight seems to be largely about, is the one way to play Midnight that I don't like.

 

[Kishin]

Amen.

I like the OP's idea. I've read through some of Midnight and while I like the setting, I hate the whole "you can never restore peace" garbage; it totally turns me off from ever playing it.. when the designers flat out say they won't publish stats for the big baddie because they never want you to be able to defeat him, I have to question why bother playing at all then? To see how long you can survive? To "win" by establishing a small pocket of resistance that realistically will get obliterated within a year? That would be a lovely epilogue.. (sarcasm): "Thus, across the land a small flicker of hope was restored. Men from [insert various lands] journeyed to [another place] to join the Army of Light. But sadly, their dreams were for naught. Years later the Shadow's army met them on the field of battle and annihilated them utterly. A meager force can never oppose the might of Izrador. Game Over."

The whole point of playing a hero in D&D is so you CAN start from humble beginnings, raise a grand army and destroy the great evil that has covered the land for the past x many years. Midnight takes that concept, the very foundation of D&D itself, away by trying to portray a world where no matter what you do, barring some ridiculous DM fiat, you can't defeat the evil and you can never make the world better. I would actually enjoy playing this campaign under someone like you (the OP), who wanted the end of it to be the destruction/banishment of Izrador and the restoration of peace to the world.

People really miss the point of Midnight, or least the epic heroism aspect of it, which is even discussed in the core book. The PCs in Midnight are meant to be larger than life figures, to eventually do amazing things. Furthermore, I'd daresay that fighting a battle you know with 100% certainty will result in the loss of your life as you try to make things better for just a little while, or for a small group of people, is infinitely more heroic than the Campbellian/Lucasian rise out of nothingness to save the world and make everything sunshine and rainbows again fantasy that gluts the genre. The fact that you cannot destroy a -god- does not invalidate any heroic action on your part. You do the best that can, which is ultimately what things boil down to anyway, in a non hyper-idealized stars in your eyes reality.

Its the same as Lovecraft. No one can stop the Great Old Ones, but it sure doesn't stop people from trying anyway, and from occasionally gumming up the works a bit.

P.S. If you follow the Midnight line, there are definitely hints dropped left and right about the chinks in the armor of Izrador's empire, and I'd gainsay these hints are more than plausible seeds from the writers as to how to do some major damage to the Shadow and his cronies, or even completely upset the balance of power there.

 

[Slife]

People really miss the point of Midnight, or least the epic heroism aspect of it, which is even discussed in the core book. The PCs in Midnight are meant to be larger than life figures, to eventually do amazing things. Furthermore, I'd daresay that fighting a battle you know with 100% certainty will result in the loss of your life as you try to make things better for just a little while, or for a small group of people, is infinitely more heroic than the Campbellian/Lucasian rise out of nothingness to save the world and make everything sunshine and rainbows again fantasy that gluts the genre. The fact that you cannot destroy a -god- does not invalidate any heroic action on your part. You do the best that can, which is ultimately what things boil down to anyway, in a non hyper-idealized stars in your eyes reality.

Yes, because even if in the long term you're completely ineffectual, and your life meaningless, at least you're a very special hero.

 

[XO]

I see the Midnight campaign as the "Fellowship of the Ring - Lost." There is no balance left. The human kingdoms are conquered, the elven and dwarven kingdoms are doomed, and what resistance remains is being systematically hunted down and exterminated.

The future of the Midnight world is the inevitable eradication of all good and the total collapse of literacy, crafts, and commerce. A truly dark age of small impoverished communities eking out a bare subsistence survival with no prospect for Renaissance.

Unless balance can be restored, I personally find the Midnight campaign a singularly pointless game setting.

Political Comment Removed by Moderator.

 

[Cardhu]

Amen.

I like the OP's idea. I've read through some of Midnight and while I like the setting, I hate the whole "you can never restore peace" garbage; it totally turns me off from ever playing it.. when the designers flat out say they won't publish stats for the big baddie because they never want you to be able to defeat him, I have to question why bother playing at all then? To see how long you can survive? To "win" by establishing a small pocket of resistance that realistically will get obliterated within a year? That would be a lovely epilogue.. (sarcasm): "Thus, across the land a small flicker of hope was restored. Men from [insert various lands] journeyed to [another place] to join the Army of Light. But sadly, their dreams were for naught. Years later the Shadow's army met them on the field of battle and annihilated them utterly. A meager force can never oppose the might of Izrador. Game Over."

The whole point of playing a hero in D&D is so you CAN start from humble beginnings, raise a grand army and destroy the great evil that has covered the land for the past x many years. Midnight takes that concept, the very foundation of D&D itself, away by trying to portray a world where no matter what you do, barring some ridiculous DM fiat, you can't defeat the evil and you can never make the world better. I would actually enjoy playing this campaign under someone like you (the OP), who wanted the end of it to be the destruction/banishment of Izrador and the restoration of peace to the world.

The aftermath posed here is completely realistic. The Shadow forces absolutely would exact terrible reprisals for "heroic sacrifices."

We need only look into recent history to see the reality. Examples as recent as World War II include:

The town of Kalavrita, Greece;
Oradour-Sur-Glane, France;
Tulle Village;
The Ascq train station;
Izieu Village;
Fraysinett village;
The Saulx Valley ...

It's one thing to play a character in the "Alamo" scenario, sacrificing oneself for a higher purpose. I've done it. It fit the character and campaign.

It's entirely another to realize that victory is impossible, defeat is absolutely certain, and the mere effort guarantees the terrible deaths of all innocents around.

We have to remember that the evil of the Nazis was overturned only because there was an ally of tremendous industrial potentiial capable of liberating Europe. The Midnight campaign as conceived by the authors has no such basis for hope.They have released sociological forces that history indicates are unopposed and therefore unstoppable.

But perhaps we should be grateful that few, if any, among us have any inkling what it is really like to live in occupation by tyranny, like Europe in the early 1940s, or Stalinist Russia, or Czechloslovakia and Hungary in 1956, or as Shi'ites and Kurds under the Bath regime.

But hey, there is NO "right" or "wrong" here. If you like the Midnight campaign, enjoy it. To me, it makes no sense. Here's why.

It's only a game.

 

[mmadsen]

I've read through some of Midnight and while I like the setting, I hate the whole "you can never restore peace" garbage; it totally turns me off from ever playing it..

I think the creators of the setting present it as an unwinnable scenario so that the players will feel all the more excited about each and every small win -- and ecstatic about actually beating the "unbeatable" bad guy at the end of the campaign. It's a matter of credibly setting expectations.

 

[wayne62682]

I think the creators of the setting present it as an unwinnable scenario so that they players will feel all the more excited about each and every small win -- and ecstatic about actually beating the "unbeatable" bad guy at the end of the campaign. It's a matter of credibly setting expectations.

Right but... isn't the point of Midnight that you never CAN "actually beat the unbeatable bad guy at the end of the campaign"? No matter what you do, you can't really dent Izrador's forces because he's all-powerful, or so was my understanding. You might be able to form the 'Rebel Alliance' but you can never openly oppose the 'Galactic Empire' or destroy the 'Death Star'. I happen to like the Lucas/Star Wars type plotline of a ragtag group managing to topple the oppressive evil, not a gritty "realistic" evil.