Mike Mearls: Build your Adventures in OD&D

[Starfox]

Module B1 goes further than usual in the description department... There are rooms that really stand out, indeed are of iconic status, such as the pools. There are some lively features, such as a certain cat. In the end, though, too much is -- considered in abandoned isolation -- just enigmatic rather than engagingly mysterious.

The missing ingredient, of course, is monsters.

Bold is mine.

The missing part, to me, is plot, not monsters. As a storyteller, no amount of description is really interesting unless it is used to reveal a plot. Any plot. The background and history of the world is a plot, but also a background to all the smaller plots the DM introduces to the players.

 

[Jhaelen]

Setting is a very solid way to start with an adventure design project. I'm not sure you want to do 100% of the design without even considering the occupants, however; you could end up with creatures that don't belong in a certain environment (or conversely, limiting yourself because of the environmental choices), you could end up with no place to put a large creature (such as a dragon), and so forth.

... and that's precisely the problem many of the 'classic' modules for D&D have.

It's also one of my acid tests for adventure modules:
Does the adventure still work if I replace every creature in it with something else?

If it does, the author didn't pay enough attention to the environment. While such 'generic' dungeons may have some merit, it's usually not what I enjoy playing.

I'd also like to note that Eberron adventures already seem to follow this kind of design:
They typically involve lots of cool locations which are often located all over the world. Their weak point is often the story linking these locations together.

 

[Jhaelen]

The missing part, to me, is plot, not monsters. As a storyteller, no amount of description is really interesting unless it is used to reveal a plot. Any plot. The background and history of the world is a plot, but also a background to all the smaller plots the DM introduces to the players.

I agree. But there is a school of thought, that the 'ideal' adventure doesn't provide a plot. The plot is what is created by the players.

I think it's got something to do with this sandbox-thingy I keep reading about...

 

[Ariosto]

The missing part, to me, is plot, not monsters.

Sorry! I was using the term "monster" in the technical-jargon sense peculiar to old D&D (in which the Monster Manual included Dolphins and Pilgrims as well as Cockatrices and Perytons) -- by now an old habit, but not a very helpful one.

Please substitute "creatures" for (I hope) more clarity!

"Man versus environment" is a theme that can produce plots, but for general purposes I think that interaction with other creatures -- and especially with other beings/people (even if inhuman) -- is key.

What Mr. Carr did not provide was a dynamic "something going on", and a careless DM might not provide enough if spacial relationships among the denizens were the only ones given attention.

 

[Ariosto]

That said, I come to a D & D game not to be a "storyteller" but rather to be a player or referee. I find my view reflected in "The Gospel of Papers&Paychecks":

The role of a superior DM is NOT to tell a story to his or her players. The DM need only provide an interesting and challenging environment for the players to explore and then administer that environment totally impartially. Superior players will be able to create a character-driven, interactive story from these raw materials, and neither the players nor the GM can tell where the story is headed.

I imagine that someone coming, for instance, from a background in "Japanese computer RPGs" such as Chrono Trigger might expect Dungeons & Dragons to be rather more like those. Recent products under the D&D brand label might even be better suited to such an undertaking than is the original model (at least if one wishes to use the term 'game' seriously).

 

[Aus_Snow]

The role of a superior DM is NOT to tell a story to his or her players. The DM need only provide an interesting and challenging environment for the players to explore and then administer that environment totally impartially. Superior players will be able to create a character-driven, interactive story from these raw materials, and neither the players nor the GM can tell where the story is headed.

It's funny. I'd never thought about what RPGs are, or even how they're played, much at all before hopping online and readin' 'n writin' all kinds of wacky things. But, as it turns out, that quote sums up precisely my own experiences with RPGs, pretty much from the get go. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

So I do wonder, what the 'storytelling' angle really is. Foreign, yes. But beyond that, how does it actually play out? I would love to see some examples of actual play, so I could get an idea of the processes involved.

Is it more a matter of degrees, with those standing somewhat apart on the scale typically talking past one another, ad infinitum? So many of these things are like that (no B&W, just a whole lotta grey, but never let that get in the way of a good rant!)

 

[Gimby]

Is it more a matter of degrees, with those standing somewhat apart on the scale typically talking past one another, ad infinitum? So many of these things are like that (no B&W, just a whole lotta grey, but never let that get in the way of a good rant!)

I highly expect that it is this.

 

[Ariosto]

So I do wonder, what the 'storytelling' angle really is. Foreign, yes. But beyond that, how does it actually play out? I would love to see some examples of actual play, so I could get an idea of the processes involved.

Bad examples are about as easy to find as complaints of 'railroading'. Others may be celebrated as great evenings' entertainments, yet leave one squinting and wondering, "Where's the game?"

Sometimes one does not really want much of a game, perhaps, or conversely much of a story. I think it evidently a matter of degrees, rather than a simple binary switch between "adventure game" and "interactive fiction"!

Even in the latter category, critics sometimes aver that there is too little interaction in a work to warrant the trappings of IF. The result might be less successful than if the author had simply presented it in customary narrative form.

 

[Harlekin]

So I do wonder, what the 'storytelling' angle really is. Foreign, yes. But beyond that, how does it actually play out? I would love to see some examples of actual play, so I could get an idea of the processes involved.

Have you looked at Piratecat's 4th edition thread? That would be how a great storytelling GM runs a game.

 

[Jhaelen]

I find my view reflected in "The Gospel of Papers&Paychecks":

Wouldn't the world be a great place if we were all blessed with 'superior' DMs and 'superior' players?