D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Not a Decepticon]

The disconnect seems to be:

There are some who believe narrative consequences are not "true" consequences and that players can just ignore them. That players are not exploiting the system, but playing as intended (by resting whenever mechanically optimal). Because the DM doesn't have the system mechanics to stop the players the DM is railroading them (the players) by having logical narrative consequences from player actions.

I find this argument unconvincing, but have said enough on it and won't be engaging in further circles!

There is also the blatant disregard for Rules as Intended and exploiting vageuness in Rules as Written. If the rule say you cannot take more than one long rest in less than 24 hours, it is obvious to me that the rule was put in to ensure you are not long resting after every single encounter, further supported by existence of short rest. which would not be necessary if the game wanted you to spam the long rest. Players who want to disregard that need to be talked to about the spirit of the rules vs the text, and if that is not enough, be told to leave the table.

 

[Minigiant]

Interesting. If we were to adjust the dials on encounter creation so that every fight (especially boss fights) assumes the PCs are at 100% power, what should we do differently?

The problem isn't the encounters.
The problem is the PCs.

PCs can nova.
Monsters were not designed to handle nova.
Therefore you cannot adjust the dials of the encounter creation to match what the PCS have because the characters have not been designed for this.

The only options are

1) Reduce PC power to match the monsters
2) Reduce PC resources to match the monsters
3) Increase monster toughness to match the PC power and resources
OR
4) Ban nova

 

[Not a Decepticon]

The problem isn't the encounters.
The problem is the PCs.

PCs can nova.
Monsters were not designed to handle nova.
Therefore you cannot adjust the dials of the encounter creation to match what the PCS have because the characters have not been designed for this.

The only options are

1) Reduce PC power to match the monsters
2) Reduce PC resources to match the monsters
3) Increase monster toughness to match the PC power and resources
OR
4) Ban nova

I like how Draw Steel fixed this issue by have PCs start at middle of their pwoer and make both sides stronger the longer the fight goes.

 

[Mort]

It's interesting, because there is an entire section on this in the 2014 DM's Guide.

But how would Mearls know about that? Not like he was a named author on the book or anything!

 

[Minigiant]

I like how Draw Steel fixed this issue by have PCs start at middle of their pwoer and make both sides stronger the longer the fight goes.

The Street Fighter method.

Or would that be the KOF method?

 

[Parmandur]

But how would Mearls know about that? Not like he was a named author on the book or anything!

To be fair, thst was probavly James Wyatt who wrote the relevant section.

 

[Mort]

The problem isn't the encounters.
The problem is the PCs.

PCs can nova.
Monsters were not designed to handle nova.
Therefore you cannot adjust the dials of the encounter creation to match what the PCS have because the characters have not been designed for this.

The only options are

1) Reduce PC power to match the monsters
2) Reduce PC resources to match the monsters
3) Increase monster toughness to match the PC power and resources
OR
4) Ban nova

These are the "only" options if we assume that each encounter is its own self contained unit. And if so, there are plenty of solutions, heck 4e basically solved it.

Personally I like the conundrum, the give and take of thinking - yes we could easily overcome this encounter, but should we? What happens next?

 

[Scott Christian]

But how would Mearls know about that? Not like he was a named author on the book or anything!

He did know about it. But, he seems like a nice guy, so he doesn't want to come out and just say: "You know, if the DMs read the DM's Guide, they wouldn't have as much of a problem with boss encounters." Instead, he points to the math, which shows if people have a long rest before a boss encounter, the boss encounter is significantly easier.

 

[Mort]

He did know about it. But, he seems like a nice guy, so he doesn't want to come out and just say: "You know, if the DMs read the DM's Guide, they wouldn't have as much of a problem with boss encounters." Instead, he points to the math, which shows if people have a long rest before a boss encounter, the boss encounter is significantly easier.

You have people, in this very thread, who discount the DMG guidance. Who say the encounter math is ALL that matters. And any attempt to go beyond it is unfair limiting of the players.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

You have people, in this very thread, who discount the DMG guidance. Who say the encounter math is ALL that matters. And any attempt to go beyond it is unfair limiting of the players.

I dare to say, that is a very toxic mindset.