D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Zardnaar]

You totally skipped over answering the question and only broadened it from "how many times before players start calling the gm unprepared?" to add "and how long before the obvious adversarial arms race results in players feeling like the GM is openly adversarial?". Both of those questions apply because the players approaching eiya video game play to win mindset are % certain that rest early rest often is expected reasonable and reinforced by wotc's treatment of the issue for over a decade given RAW+RAI of the rules

Edit: before anyone thinks to rightly suggest that the players should be better than that, I'll say that such a declaration is far from reaching the level of being barely useful gm support without solid support in the published rules and community engagement from wotc.

Trust the DM i suppose. Players who woukd hard core abuse 5MWD I wish the luck in finding a new DM.

Must be doing something right. 6 players 23. 15. 7 years other 3 are new. Couldn't run 3 games i had at one point.

3-5 is more typical think I hit 9 encounters at lvl12.

Milestone leveling. Fail the milestone you dont level. Learn to pace yourselves its really not hard. 5E default easy mode lol.

I've point blank told them there's nothing I can really do RAW to stop you steamrolling the game. I would have to cheese the CR system or use excessive terrain.

I can kill the lot of them easy enough if I had to.

 

[Minigiant]

I mean, with any DM fidelity and common sense, the situation might get worse for the players. That is why most groups I know casting it are either using it as a last-ditch effort while hiding or using it to stop environmental conditions and thwart wandering monsters

The core issue is for many monsters, they cannot realistically generate equal power as a fully rested party of adventurers to convert their Easy encounter to a Deadly encounter without setting help.

And most settings don't.

3 goblins cannot find 50 goblins in 6 hours and bring them back in 2 more hours after their cave is fireballed.
2 bandits cannot return 10 other bandits, 3 captains, 2 bandit mages, and a bandit lord in 8 hours.
1 ogre cannot spontaneous summon 3 more ogres and a ogre magi.

Fiends can. Old giants and giants can.

But most DMs populated their settings with idiots, beasts, and martials. Idiots and beasts are dumb. Martials can't nova and 5e designers were afraid to allow martial to supernaturally do logistics.


This is why every thief in my setting is a member of a guild, every raider from a nearby horde, every warrior and brute a member of a nearby army which teleportation access.

Because if a monster group isn't caster heavy, a party can safely nova down a huge chunk of them knowing either they can't replenish faster than them or the DM has to commit to putting casters all over their world.

This is why the "grounded low magic settings" rarely make sense at height levels in modern D&D and fantasy RPGs.

 

[Zardnaar]

The core issue is for many monsters, they cannot realistically generate equal power as a fully rested party of adventurers to convert their Easy encounter to a Deadly encounter without setting help.

And most settings don't.

3 goblins cannot find 50 goblins in 6 hours and bring them back in 2 more.
2 bandits cannot return 10 other bandits, 3 captains, 2 bandit mages, and a bandit lord in 8 hours.
1 ogre cannot spontaneous summon 3 more ogres and a ogre magi.

Fiends can. Old giants and giants can.

But most DMs populated their settings with idiots, beasts, and martials. Idiots and beasts are dumb. Martials can't nova and 5e designers were afraid to allow martial to supernaturally do logistics.


This is why every thief in my setting is a member of a guild, every raider from a nearby horde, every warrior and brute a member of a nearby army which teleportation access.

Because if a monster group isn't caster heavy, a party can safely nova down a huge chunk of them knowing either they can't replenish faster than them or the DM has to commit to putting casters all over their world.

This is why the "grounded low magic settings" rarely make sense at height levels in modern D&D and fantasy RPGs.

I prep 8-10 encounters generally.

If PCs 5mwd they get moved around becoming 4-5.

Or 1 is mobile hut squad reinforcing other group.

Barricades get set up (tables, barrels etc). Any reserve equipment is used along with spells if applicable.

 

[Minigiant]

I prep 8-10 encounters generally.

If PCs 5mwd they get moved around becoming 4-5

I halve spell slots and do 3-5.
Sleeping in a city, fort, or bastion with full amenities gives you full slots and lets you go to deep dungeons.

 

[Zardnaar]

I halve spell slots and do 3-5.
Sleeping in a city, fort, or bastion with full amenities gives you full slots and lets you go to deep dungeons.

I use cariety of encounters. Obvious things will have spellcasters available. Eg cults, clerics. Zhentarim etc.

 

[Minigiant]

I use cariety of encounters. Obvious things will have spellcasters available. Eg cults, clerics. Zhentarim etc.

Sure that's spellcaster enemies solve the problem.

But that's the point.

The 5MWD and Anticlimactic Boss fights are caused by the designers and a large death of the community wanting the setting to be mostly populated by no Spellcasters BUT allowing and expecting player parties to be 30%-75% full casters and half casters with tons of resources.

Then it makes sense why 90% the known NPCs of D&D are full casters: past a certain level it takes a whole army, a rival spellcaster, or the casters' idiocy to kill a spellcaster.

Once an archdruid, archmage, high priest, high warlock, or sorcerer supreme gets enough levels, they can hide out and gather levels and resources. Because anything below their level can't survive their full force without an army or a adventure party behind them. And everything above them is on another plane.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sure that's spellcaster enemies solve the problem.

But that's the point.

The 5MWD and Anticlimactic Boss fights are caused by the designers and a large death of the community wanting the setting to be mostly populated by no Spellcasters BUT allowing and expecting player parties to be 30%-75% full casters and half casters with tons of resources.

Then it makes sense why 90% the known NPCs of D&D are full casters: past a certain level it takes a whole army, a rival spellcaster, or the casters' idiocy to kill a spellcaster.

Once an archdruid, archmage, high priest, high warlock, or sorcerer supreme gets enough levels, they can hide out and gather levels and resources. Because anything below their level can't survive their full force without an army or a adventure party behind them. And everything above them is on another plane.

Its not really the spellcasters are a problem. Unless you cheese the system.

By that I mean find the scariest lowest CR monsters posdible and spam them. CR 1 archers with two attacks. CR 2 or 3 spell casters with fireball. Or swap spells adding it. 16 goblins level 1.

Things like that. Every edition has them.

 

[AnotherGuy]

The 5MWD and Anticlimactic Boss fights are caused by the designers and a large death of the community wanting the setting to be mostly populated by no Spellcasters BUT allowing and expecting player parties to be 30%-75% full casters and half casters with tons of resources.

This is a good point.

The other thing is to have the intelligent foes target spellcasters.
Grappled them, move them (pull or teleport them), drop them prone, sunder their spell focus.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is a good point.

The other thing is to have the intelligent foes target spellcasters.
Grappled them, move them (pull or teleport them), drop them prone, sunder their spell focus.

Its not the spellcasters doing the danage. Yay we neutralized the spellcaster.

Fighter action surges and shaves off 1/3rd to half.

 

[Minigiant]

Its not really the spellcasters are a problem. Unless you cheese the system.

By that I mean find the scariest lowest CR monsters posdible and spam them. CR 1 archers with two attacks. CR 2 or 3 spell casters with fireball. Or swap spells adding it. 16 goblins level 1.

Things like that. Every edition has them.

It's resources, not the spells.

A D&D spellcaster is equivalent to a billionaire with a black market shopping app. They wake up every morning with a hand full of grenades, a hypno gun, a pair of mercs, a on call surgeon, and a bulletproof sports car.

Every morning, 1,000,000 gp goes to your bank account