D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Parmandur]

I would love to see WotC put out a 300 page book that contained all the major playstyles in it.

They could devote 10-20 pages to each playstyle, teaching DMs how to run that sort of game, create worlds to fit the playstyle, and put in rules additions, substitutions, and subtractions to aid the DM in achieving a good version of that playstyle for D&D. Doing that would not fracture the player base, since no matter which style you pick, you're still playing D&D and would still want the new monster books, settings, adventures, etc. that you would have without a book on playstyles.

Thing is, I think WotC already put out a massive over 300 page vook last year that covers the biggest playstyles...the new DMG.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

"I am not yet tired and thus trying to rest will be wasted" is sufficient. And there is a sea and a mountain of difference between "chilling and waiting a bit" and "waiting 24 HOURS to take an 8 HOURS rest for total 32 HOURS of doing nothing". This is ridiciluous and if you cannot find me an explanation that exist in unvierse, does NOT rely on knowing a rules exploit of the game mechanics like if you can break the fourt wall, or requires you to manipulatively minimize the magnitute of time spent doing nothing, I refuse to acknowledge this as valid thing a character could do.

"My magic has yet to recover. We may still face significant peril, so I say we wait a day or two before we face the enemy head on."

The characters know that their magic, health, stamina etc has not been restored so in absence of time pressure they have perfect rationale to wait.

Also, who said the characters are aware these are powers they use? I do not thin ka Fighter is conciously aware that he is capable of making exactly 4 times or twice a day 8 times, I think when he uses action surge, he just thinks "I pshed myself even beyond my limits, my blade moving faster than before". And that's enough.

Yes, but he also knows that it is strenuous to do so and cannot continue doing so endlessly without resting first. Like after an exercise you might know you cannot do another right away.

And this is still ridiculous, demandign the characters think in game terms. Are you telling me you also expect Ruy from Street Fighter to not think of in-universe ways to perform Hadouken, but instead be aware of exact combination of buttons he has to press to use it? Because that's what this feels like to me, this whole line of argument. It reminds me of these godawful "rational" fanfics spawned by (equally godawful) Harry Potter and Methods of Rationality, where characters are supposed to act "rational" but in reality the writer just beamed into their head foreknowledge of setting rules and exact event that will happen, so they always act "optimally". It's ignorign that people don't really act rational nor do they think entierly in terms of what is the most optimal couse of action. It's like saying massacre of Finn's village in the Force Awakens was stupid because "rational" villagers would all rush the stormtroopers shooting them with lasers and flamethrowers, overwhelm them with pure numbers (despite them being actively dwindled by said lasers and flame throwers), take over their lasers, flamethrowers and ships, fly to the main ship and take it over too. It strips any resemblance to thinking beings from the characters and turns it into number crunching.

No, it is not that, it is merely keeping the fiction and rules roughly aligned so that the decision making process of the players and the characters do not deviate too much.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

While HP wouldn't be practical, the spec ops units I served with knew the entire team's energy levels, nagging injuries and the medics would give IV fluids during rests (cure wounds). We also knew, precisely without counting, the ammunition for all weapons, battery levels for electronics and how much food we had.
We could see when someone tired and needed another to take some of their load as well.
This was trained into us so thoroughly that it was not a matter of thinking, but instinct.

For the real-world people most like D&D adventurers these concepts aren't difficult

Yep, exactly this. The player knowledge of the rules simulates this sort of knowledge of the characters.

 

[M_Natas]

"My magic has yet to recover. We may still face significant peril, so I say we wait a day or two before we face the enemy head on."

The characters know that their magic, health, stamina etc has not been restored so in absence of time pressure they have perfect rationale to wait.



Yes, but he also knows that it is strenuous to do so and cannot continue doing so endlessly without resting first. Like after an exercise you might know you cannot do another right away.



No, it is not that, it is merely keeping the fiction and rules roughly aligned so that the decision making process of the players and the characters do not deviate too much.

This.
The rules are there to inform the players about things the character knows and feels intuitively and are of course in part an abstraction.
Does a character know he has 20 of 20 HP? No. But he knows that he feels great and full of energy. Does he know he has 5 of 20 HP? No. But she knows her back hurts, her legs a wobbly and another punch to the gut will probably knock her out.

Does a Wizard knows he has 4 level 1 spell slots and 2 level 2 spell slots?
In my game world, definitely.

Because that is quite easily measurable. Wizards, like any professional who try to improve in their profession would try to start and measure what and what not they can do.
Somewhere I even wrote a small Inworld explanation of the spell slots (like using strings in the weave to knit spells. And a level 1 spell uses one string, level 2 spells use a different string of the weave and when you increase in knowledge and power you can access different strings of the weave, that allow you to cast more powerful magic. And you access the strings of the weave with different chakra points of your mind that can be exhausted and need to rest. That's why you can exhaust a specific spell level slot but still can access higher spell levels, because those are accessed by a different part of your mind - so the weave has 10 different kinds of strings spellcaster can access with different parts of their mind).

 

[Parmandur]

so in absence of time pressure they have perfect rationale to wait.

Emphasis added.

That's why time pressure is important. It's not that difficult to do, either, in a narrative fashion.

And if the characters know their abilities and limitations, they will know how much they can handle under time pressure, and to push themselves appropriately.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

6-8 encounters is not exactly a "mega-dungeon", that's a pretty standard Dungeon size, again that represents 2.5 minutes of narrative time apread acroas a whole day...which ia the issue, if you make the balance point 1-3 Encounters, it becomes a problem to play a traditional Dungeon. But making a traditional Dungeon the point of balance, it ia easy to scale back a challenge to be easier.

I think the largest dungeon in my current campaign had five encounters, and that's because the characters managed to divide the last encounter in two. I think three fights for a dungeon is perfectly adequate amount most of the time.

I just really do not get the appeal of cramming so many fight into one location and short period of time. It just seems exhausting and repetitive. Do a lot of people really play like this?

In any case, encounter difficulty matters. In a larger dungeon you might have quite a bit of patrolling monsters or some poor goblins just chilling which are pretty easy fights, and the challenge is more about silencing them quickly so that they cannot raise an alarm, but the fights themselves are easy and do not drain much resources so you can have more of them.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

No, it is not that, it is merely keeping the fiction and rules roughly aligned so that the decision making process of the players and the characters do not deviate too much.

That "roughly" does so much work carrying this sentence it is going to collapse. Any setting in which "roughly" aligned means the characters know exact mechanical exploit, down to number of hours, is held together by a ductape.

Yes, but he also knows that it is strenuous to do so and cannot continue doing so endlessly without resting first. Like after an exercise you might know you cannot do another right away.

then he also knows he is in good condition to keep going for a while regardless. In school did you demand a day off lessons after every PE?

"My magic has yet to recover. We may still face significant peril, so I say we wait a day or two before we face the enemy head on."

"We just rested. We faced one enemy and you cast just a single spell, then resort to one we all see you do repedeately for hours. If you're such a lousy mage that you're already in need to rest, you should not be here."

Please stop acting like anyone in their right mind, when faced with a taxing task, would purposefully drag it across days just to always have optimal performenace. This is a that guy behavior.

And I'm not gonna lie, the roleplay bit you did here sounds exactly like one of more infamous That Guy moments done by Orion Acaba in Critical Role Campaign 1. Is your character going to say he is not taking another step until you take a long rest next?

 

[Parmandur]

I think the largest dungeon in my current campaign had five encounters, and that's because the characters managed to divide the last encounter in two. I think three fights for a dungeon is perfectly adequate amount most of the time.

I just really do not get the appeal of cramming so many fight into one location and short period of time. It just seems exhausting and repetitive. Do a lot of people really play like this?

In any case, encounter difficulty matters. In a larger dungeon you might have quite a bit of patrolling monsters or some poor goblins just chilling which are pretty easy fights, and the challenge is more about silencing them quickly so that they cannot raise an alarm, but the fights themselves are easy and do not drain much resources so you can have more of them.

Again...we are only talking about 2-3 minutes of fighting in the narrative: a standard issue Dungeon stocked per the DMG guidelines (such as those throughout the published books) is not that onerous, and moves quickly. Stan action movie logic, the characters go in and go all John Wick on their enemies.

Fights in 5E are over super quick, too, particularly if yoy go TotM and don't use lots of physical representation.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Emphasis added.

That's why time pressure is important. It ot that difficult to do, either, in a narrative fashion.

And if the characters know their abilities and limitations, they will know how much they can handle under time pressure, and to push themselves appropriately.

Yes! Though I find that having the time pressure is way easier with gritty rests, especially with sanctuary requirement. You of course can come up reasons why the thing must be done today, but it is a lot easier to come up with reasons why you cannot pack your bags and go home to chill for a week and then come back.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Again...we are only talking about 2-3 minutes of fighting in the narrative: a standard issue Dungeon stocked per the DMG guidelines (such as those throughout the published books) is not that onerous, and moves quickly. Stan action movie logic, the characters go in and go all John Wick on their enemies.

Fights in 5E are over super quick, too, particularly if yoy go TotM and don't use lots of physical representation.

I guess it is a good comparison and I find endless CGI-filled and risk-free fight scenes in modern action movies tiresome as well. It is just so formulaic and repetitive.