D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[mamba]

A single fight ruins the rest, by the rules, even though it will probavly be over in 12-18 seconds.

that is not what the rules say, am I missing something? Are you thinking of short rests?

To be 100% honest, we have never had to even resort to soft sticks like that? I don't think my friends and family have a concept of a five minute work day, or if they do they don't try.

yeah, not everyone needs to, some people are ok with playing with a suboptimal strategic approach I wish the game would encourage it more rather than actually discourage it through the rules, see Draw Steel.

 

[Charlaquin]

Do you count these deaths towards depletion of enemy forces, or some other form of progress? The overland certainly has no limit to the critters you can encounter, but a dungeon or other area probably has finite enemies, and there's a big risk of players feeling like their time is being wasted if the monsters are being created ex nihilo for the sake of having encounters.

I mean… it’s supposed to feel like time is being wasted. The entire point is to provide time pressure, to make the players want to move it along. But, no, I don’t have a finite number of monsters in the dungeon that random encounters deplete. Random encounters aren’t even always fights with monsters. Any kind of complication will do here.

Also, do you use XP or milestone leveling?

XP. I do award XP for milestones as well as for combat, but I’m not a fan of story-based leveling or session-based leveling.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, you might as well not bother. There's no real choice there as it's not a risk of an encounter, it's a guarantee. It's a quantum ogre with extra steps. Just roll 1d8 for which hour of the rest the encounter happens. After the first encounter, roll your 1d8 again and if they're still resting after than many hours, they get a second encounter. Lather, rinse, repeat.

ETA: I just ran that through anydice. It's the equivalent to asking the players to flip 11 quarters and if any of them come up tails, they have an encounter. Not really what I'd call a fair ask.

It’s a 99.95% chance of a random encounter, which yes, the players should take as a guarantee. Like I said, it’s most likely about 5 random encounters using the 2014 resting rules, or about 9 using the 2024 resting rules. It’s not a quantum ogre, that’s where you present the players with two (or more) paths that both (or all) lead to the same destination. This is just me consistently applying the exact same rules for random encounters that are used everywhere in the dungeon, whether they are actively exploring or trying to sleep.
If you analyze trying to take a long rest and not trying to take a long rest as two different “paths,” those paths have very different destinations: one is them having about 5 or 9 random encounters while they’re trying to sleep, and getting all their resources back if they survive that gauntlet. The other is them continuing to explore the dungeon, making real progress while trying to make their limited resources last as long as they can. Also there’s a third path of leaving the dungeon and finding a safe place they can rest without interruptions.

 

[Charlaquin]

So if I understand this correctly, there is a 2/3 chance per hour for an encounter in a dungeon, so 8 hours of uninterrupted rest are essentially never happening?

Correct.

Given that no fight should take that long, does it take 3 fights or so before the rest is ruined?

I just use the normal rules for interrupting rests, which in base 5e means, no it won’t be interrupted, and in the 2024 rules means every time they are interrupted it’ll take another hour to finish the rest, which works out to about 3 or 4 more random encounters before you’ll be able to complete the rest.

guess not then, suppose they do decide and rest, they are rested afterwards, assuming they survived. Given your approach I doubt many will try to rest though

Correct on both counts.

 

[Parmandur]

that is not what the rules say, am I missing something? Are you thinking of short rests?

No offense, but you are missing something: initiating a combat does disrupt a Long Rest.

yeah, not everyone needs to, some people are ok with playing with a suboptimal strategic approach I wish the game would encourage it more rather than actually discourage it through the rules, see Draw Steel.

It is only optimal strategy with DM allowance. Again, it isn't something that ia a problem in my experience, but random encounters and such are a pretty easy fix to prevent the five minute work day from being optimal.

 

[Charlaquin]

A single fight ruins the rest, by the rules, even though it will probavly be over in 12-18 seconds.

No, it takes an hour of combat to ruin a long rest by the 2014 rules. In the 2024 rules, simply rolling initiative is enough to interrupt a long rest, but it being interrupted doesn’t ruin it, it just means you need to add another hour to the time required to complete the rest.

 

[Charlaquin]

No offense, but you are missing something: initiating a combat does disrupt a Long Rest.

Incorrect, in both versions of 5e.

 

[Parmandur]

No, it takes an hour of combat to ruin a long rest by the 2014 rules. In the 2024 rules, simply rolling initiative is enough to interrupt a long rest, but it being interrupted doesn’t ruin it, it just means you need to add another hour to the time required to complete the rest.

There is admittedly some contraversy about the usage of commas in regards to Long Rest rules in 2014...but the more clear reading is that initiating combat is one of four things that fully interrupts a Long Rest. Another is an hour of strenuous activity. Some think that the text means an hour of combat, but the more likely reading is those are separate thoughts in the text.

 

[Charlaquin]

There is admittedly some contraversy about the usage of commas in regards to Long Rest rules in 2014...but the more clear reading is that initiating combat is one of four things that fully interrupts a Long Rest. Another is an hour of strenuous activity. Some think that the text means an hour of combat, but the more likely reading is those are separate thoughts in the text.

It’s definitely not the more likely reading, especially given the confirmation from the devs cited earlier in the thread. But, whatever, it doesn’t matter. People are asking me how I resolve long rests in the dungeon, and I use the “it takes an hour of combat to interrupt a long rest” interpretation. If you prefer a different interpretation, that’s great, but irrelevant.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I fugred out my own explanation why bosses die too easily.

Because there is no scenario in which focusing fire on the boss is not the optimal strategy.

What's the best solution to fight involving serious enviromental hazard? Focus fire on the boss so he won't punch you while you avoid the hazard.

Ticking clock to some big thing? Focus fire on the boss because they're either crucial to the ticking clock going off or the thing preventing you from stopping it.

Minions? Focus fire on the boss, who is more dangerous, you can round up small fry later.

Hostages? Focus fire on the boss before he gives order to get them killed.

boss uses trickery and disappearances or shifting enviroment to stay out of sight? Every time they are in sight....focus fire on the boss.

And this is not an issue that can be fixed in this game, not by people designing adventure modules. Because the only solution I found to not have PCs focus fire is to have at least one player have a personally tailored incentive to do something else, one drawing from their character's backstory and motivation. That is the only way to keep players away from optimal strategy of focusing fire on the boss.