D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Micah Sweet]

The long rest variant isn't about recovery. It's about the adventuring day.

Day 1: 1 encounter.
Day 2: 2 encounters.
Day 3: No encounter.
Day 4: No encounter.
Day 5: 2 encounters. Arrive in the city at dusk.
Day 6: No encounter.
Day 7:1 city encounter. Rest after having your 6 encounters for the "adventuring day."

How long does the rest last in this paradigm? And are you taking it because that's the minimum allowed time between rests, or because you happen to be in a place where the rest is possible?

 

[Parmandur]

I'm warming up to the idea of bosses with "stages". Like in video games?

Any guidance on doing that sort of thing?

Eg; One solo boss has 3 stat blocks, one after the other. When the PCs defeat one, the next stat block "activates" and so on.

Seems like a good idea to me and could solve some issues, especially if the environment changes a bit too (again, think of epic video games).

Mythic Odysseys of Theros and Bigby's Glory of the Giants did a bit with that, maybe Fizban's? @dave2008 has done some good work with that sort of thing.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We are talking about a company that has Monopoly as one of their basic moneymakers.

They do update the rules from time to time, but it remains Monopoly even when they release a fresh box with new art.

Famously, the game that everyone house rules, as the official rules are terrible*.


*Since it was originally intended as an anti-capitalist parable, it was never meant to be fun.

 

[Maxperson]

What I'm detecting in this thread is really two different schools of thought:

• Attrition is bad and we should refocus balance around one encounter and make it easier to restore full power (with the possible exception of attrition through hp reserve á la healing surges).
• Attrition is good and we should make it harder to rest and/or make rests less effective.

These two groups are likely not going to come to any form of useful agreement on things.

This is very close, but misses the mark.

Those of us on the "attrition is bad" side aren't actually saying attrition is bad. We're saying that the game math balancing encounters around attrition is bad. 1e didn't balance encounters around attrition, yet it still had attrition. The importance of that attrition depended on how the DM ran his game.

 

[GobHag]

This is very close, but misses the mark.

Those of us on the "attrition is bad" side aren't actually saying attrition is bad. We're saying that the game math balancing encounters around attrition is bad. 1e didn't balance encounters around attrition, yet it still had attrition. The importance of that attrition depended on how the DM ran his game.

I'm very much on the attrition is bad camp, so they hit the mark on me. Not against occasional attrition in gameplay but I vastly prefer 'each session everyone regens to full and regains all per-day resources' as the baseline.

 

[billd91]

Famously, the game that everyone house rules, as the official rules are terrible*.


*Since it was originally intended as an anti-capitalist parable, it was never meant to be fun.

Except most of the house rules make the game worse, not better. Monopoly is actually better without most common house rules than with them.

 

[Maxperson]

How long does the rest last in this paradigm? And are you taking it because that's the minimum allowed time between rests, or because you happen to be in a place where the rest is possible?

Yes. Meaning that it's up to the DM, really.

In my game it's the minimum allowed time between rests. Is it satisfactory to do it that way? No, not really. But it's better than 1) shoving 6-8 encounters into a 24 period in order to preserve game balance, or 2) letting the PCs walk down easy street to 20th level.

It's the lesser of 3 evils.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I'm very much on the attrition is bad camp, so they hit the mark on me. Not against occasional attrition in gameplay but I vastly prefer 'each session everyone regens to full and regains all per-day resources' as the baseline.

Say more about wanting your sessions to match up with the in-game-world day. Is it that you are running West Marches style and that the player pool will likely be different each session? And/or is it a challenge for folks to keep track of spent resources between sessions? Something else?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Seems like people already do this anyway.

PF2 is the former--sorta--with only the Casters really having much attrition* while other classes have 'opt-in' attrition from their feats or only a smallish part of their power budget, and it's pretty liked.

I mean, casters are like half of the classes. And does HP recover after every encounter in PF2? Everyone has HP.

Here we see that in absence of low-threat encounter 'draining' resourcs, mid to low fights end up becoming just a simple pacing mechanism.

I literally do not get the point. If the outcome is not in question and no resources are risked, then there is no need to roll the dice, let alone draw battlemap and take out the tokens. Just stop wasting everyone's time and skip directly to "How do you want to do this?" and let the players just describe how they awesomely beat the foes.

* Death to vancian. **
**A personal opinion. However, it is a big complain by the playerbase that despite casters being good balance-wise, their need to stay on the game on when and where to use their flashy spells is a major stress for all but the most

Quelle horreur! Having to think about when to use your spells!

 

[Maxperson]

I'm very much on the attrition is bad camp, so they hit the mark on me. Not against occasional attrition in gameplay but I vastly prefer 'each session everyone regens to full and regains all per-day resources' as the baseline.

Fair enough. I think most of those on the attrition is bad side aren't in that same place, though. At least those of us in this thread.

Are you also for unlimited spellcasting, or is spell attrition based on slots okay? What about hit point attrition throughout the day? Is that bad? Can your PCs walk forever without sleep, or does fatigue(energy attrition) set in?

My point with those questions is to show that attrition is going to be there, and that really only the degree of attrition and how you handle it varies. I'm betting you are okay with most or all of the above attrition and don't view it as bad, but just want it restored after a rest.