D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Stalker0]

The thing is, despite all my complaints, I actually think 5e is a well designed game. It has issues, but it works reasonably well for most people despite of them. They also are such that a GM who is aware of them can address them in variety of ways.

I think issues with both 3e and 4e were way more fundamental. The things people had issues with were part of the core design assumptions of these games.

Still, this does not mean that I think these issues with 5e should not be addressed, and I think relying for the GM to fix things is not very newbie friendly. And sadly it seems 5.5 has mostly removed the tools and advice for the GM to customise the game. They were lacking before, but now they're just basically gone. 5.5. was a big disappointment for me, and I wish they had done a more extensive revamp.

Well said. 5e is simply joining the ranks of past editions. As time goes on, the shine wears off, and we start digging in to the warts. Every edition has them, and I do agree 5e overall is a step up (the closest is epic 6 3e, which is honestly the best version of 3rd edition that limits its biggest problems). But it has its flaws, and I think where it really came into play for me was that 5.5e did very very little to address it.

When 3.5 came in, it was a MASSIVE change. Classes, monsters, mechanics, magic items, everything got some big updates. It was truely an attempt to correct many of the mistakes in 3e...and it did. It still had plenty left, but it felt a serious attempt to move the edition forward. When 3.5 came out, I could not imagine going back to 3e.

5.5 does not feel that way at all to me. It has a few spell improvements, the classes got some buffs, some adjustments to the monster math....but 5.5 does not feel like it really polished the game to me. I have taken a serious look at 5.5 to decide if my next campaign will use it, and I just can't find a reason to reteach my players.

Which makes the warts of 5e even more obvious and annoying to look at. Its a "you could have fixed this WOTC, you had feedback for years...but you didn't do it"

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Nope.

Draw Steel, Daggerheart, other RPGs and even 5.5e are just reinventing the fixes 4e introduced. Just not as ugly

Which are exactly the games played by forum theorycrafters, not the general public.

 

[Minigiant]

you can always go lower than what the encounter building rules tell you. People apparently do that today and are happy with it.

The point of this thread is many DMs don't like their bosses being too easily beaten by PCs and not having to force higher CR or stats of guidelines which can TPK easily.

 

[payn]

Hrm, WotC didn't make a lot of modules, even if it would have been called for (Ship combat, Spelljamming, How to Magic School ...) but I find it quite easy to create, modify or take out rules out of 5e (2014, haven't looked to deep into 2024 yet for modifications). 5e 2014 is super easy to create modules. Want different typ of weapons or another era? Replace the weapon block.
Want different resting? Replace the resting rules? Encumbrance is bad? Change that, too. Changing and adding classes or subclasses? Easy. Changing the whole skil block? No problem. Add modes for downtime, Bastions and so on? Okili dokili.

Awesome, i'm glad you find it easy. Not all folks have the time and some of us want WotC to do it. I get why they dont, but id like them to.

 

[Campbell]

Which are exactly the games played by forum theorycrafters, not the general public.

Either that or real people, playing real games who deserve to be treated with the same respect as anyone else regardless of if meeting their needs is something Wizards deems worthwhile from an economic standpoint. There is certainly nothing theoretical about my gaming preferences - they born out of years of experience running and playing games.

Pathfinder Second Edition, Draw Steel and Fabula Ultima certainly have proven to have enough of a market for the publishers of those games.

 

[Stalker0]

Hrm, WotC didn't make a lot of modules, even if it would have been called for (Ship combat, Spelljamming, How to Magic School ...) but I find it quite easy to create, modify or take out rules out of 5e (2014, haven't looked to deep into 2024 yet for modifications). 5e 2014 is super easy to create modules. Want different typ of weapons or another era? Replace the weapon block.
Want different resting? Replace the resting rules? Encumbrance is bad? Change that, too. Changing and adding classes or subclasses? Easy. Changing the whole skil block? No problem. Add modes for downtime, Bastions and so on? Okili dokili.

I don't find this notion very productive in these discussions. You could say that in response to any complaint.

Your car runs bad, well just go learn everything there is about cars and fix it. Its easy!



That is a perfectly valid path for some people to walk, but that does not change the core issue. When people buy a product, they generally don't expect to have to fix it. Having issues with a product and then wanting to complain about it, is a pretty normal reaction. Telling them to "just fix it yourself"....not that helpful.

 

[Umbran]

Which are exactly the games played by forum theorycrafters, not the general public.

Mod Note:
If you cannot back that assertion up with some solid data-citation, it looks a whole lot like you trying to pigeonhole people's play preferences to dismiss them.

I sure hope you don't need one of us to remind you that's insulting, and that you shouldn't do it. But if you do need that reminder, here it is.

 

[mamba]

And as it stands it is possible to tightly follow the daily guidance, nobody is forcing anyone to do so and the game works if undershot.

I don’t think that guidance is 1) all that realistic with its 6-8 fights and assumptions of no long rests between any of them, and 2) still not very tight, even if you were to follow it

If your guidance requires player buy in and players not using easily available abilities (rope trick / tiny hut) in order to deliver the intended experience, then your approach is very brittle and will most likely be ‘undermined’ at most tables. Good design would avoid this

 

[Parmandur]

I don’t think that guidance is 1) all that realistic with its 6-8 fights and assumptions of no long rests between any of them, and

Yet they keep publishing books that accomplish both things...6-8 fights of 2-3 Rounds is, yet again, like 2 to 3 minutes of fighting in a whole day.

2) still not very tight, even if you were to follow it

Yes, that helps keep the players alive.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yet they keep publishing books that accomplish both things...6-8 fights of 2-3 Rounds is, yet again, like 2 to 3 minutes of fighting in a whole day.

And several hours at the game table. That's the issue.