D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Rainbow Scissors]

Thread is growing faster than I can keep up with. Some random thoughts. I'd say the largest surprise would be that Mearls not understanding that different people play the game differently (or at least not caring). At least they admit that interaction and exploration exist now, even if not supported. Level based CR always seemed wrong to me as they can never be exactly tuned to every group. I sort of miss the old way where everything was divided into ten levels ranging from trivial to epic. As for groups playing with the 5minute work day. If that was not what the dungeon was designed for, it seems the 5E way to deal with it would be to give the dungeon lair power like monsters have lair powers, and every time the creatures in it are knowingly attacked and then the attacker retreat for a long rest, one of the powers gets activated. Represents the creatures inside taking action from those attacks. Could be extra perception, calling in reinforcements, just taking their treasure and bugging out, etc.

I like that idea. Giving the lair itself a "power" is a nice way to present the idea that time is important, but without needing to jump through a bunch of hoops to try to prevent the players from resting.

Instead of "no, you can't rest," the game becomes "yes, you can rest, but...," and I think that is a better way of handling it. Give the players a risk/reward tradeoff.

 

[Minigiant]

Not sure why that's relevant. If I were still playing 5.0 sunk cost would be reason enough for me to keep doing it.

5.5e is unsatisfying to many and still has the Boss problem because many fans didn't want it to diverge from 5.0 because they spent so much time and a lot of money in 5.0.

Halve spell slots and other daily resources and most of the problems go away.

 

[Micah Sweet]

5.5e is unsatisfying to many and still has the Boss problem because many fans didn't want it to diverge from 5.0 because they spent so much time and a lot of money in 5.0.

Halve spell slots and other daily resources and most of the problems go away.

Unless you like spellcasters and/or you feel long rest resources add verisimilitude.

 

[Zardnaar]

5.5e is unsatisfying to many and still has the Boss problem because many fans didn't want it to diverge from 5.0 because they spent so much time and a lot of money in 5.0.

Halve spell slots and other daily resources and most of the problems go away.

That actually encourages the 6MWD more. The issue is dailies in general and newer players not doing the attrition based expectation of 5E. 3E and 4E would have tge same problem. OSR to lesser extent.

Easily solved by individual DMs. WotC coukd do it with monster design using 5.5 but players might not like it (+2-5 AC on everything ×5 or 10 on all saves, double HP, unstoppable or greater magic resistance on everything boss related)

 

[gban007]

This is just a more sophisticated version of the "sales are proof that design is good" argument, which I don't accept.

They should do this thing because it would make a better product--one they don't need to keep issuing revisions of because it wasn't broken in the first place.

I dont think point is that sales means design is good as such.
Ultimately I reject what I think is your underlying premise, that a better designed game would perform as well or better.
I think in many spaces, whether books, movies, video games, it isn't the best designed /written / directed etc that sells the best.
So for DnD , I think they could do a lot to make a better designed game, but in doing so they may reduce overall sales substantially, and no matter now well designed, may still trigger multiple edition changes as a result as they try and recapture popularity.
I think ultimately they have lucked into a design that works well enough for enough people to be unusually popular, with people at a table happy to play together though want different things but 5e meets them all enough, and that any steps forward to a better design may alienate a chunk of the existing base, and lead to less sales and split tables.

 

[Campbell]

Unless you like spellcasters and/or you feel long rest resources add verisimilitude.

How is a fiction where a wizard has more or less resources than the other more believable? How does having 4-6 spell slots versus 2 or 3 result in a more coherent world?

I think there are gameplay reasons to prefer one or the other and aesthetic reasons, but not believability ones.

 

[Minigiant]

Unless you like spellcasters and/or you feel long rest resources add verisimilitude.

Why?

Why do you need 10 spells a day when you wake up?

That actually encourages the 6MWD more. The issue is dailies in general and newer players not doing the attrition based expectation of 5E. 3E and 4E would have tge same problem. OSR to lesser extent.

Easily solved by individual DMs. WotC coukd do it with monster design using 5.5 but players might not like it (+2-5 AC on everything ×5 or 10 on all saves, double HP, unstoppable or greater magic resistance on everything boss related)

5MWD. Is a Power x Quantity issue.

4e showed fans refuse to sacrifice power so the only option is quantity.

 

[payn]

Why?

Why do you need 10 spells a day when you wake up?

5MWD. Is a Power x Quantity issue.

4e showed fans refuse to sacrifice power so the only option is quantity.

4E encounter powers drove the quantity up. Folks dont want to give them up so now we got 7 lunch break work days for encounter power short rest classes..

 

[Yaarel]

How is a fiction where a wizard has more or less resources than the other more believable? How does having 4-6 spell slots versus 2 or 3 result in a more coherent world?

I think there are gameplay reasons to prefer one or the other and aesthetic reasons, but not believability ones.

The narrative of short rests implies fatigue and refresh. This is better for psionic and other magic narratives, where personal energy is being expended.

The narrative of long rests is a bit weirder, imply that magic is refreshed during dreams.

 

[Minigiant]

4E encounter powers drove the quantity up. Folks dont want to give them up so now we got 7 lunch break work days for encounter power short rest classes..

Short Rest were never the problem.

Monsters were designed to take 100% of a part's short rest power.

The issue is they were not designed for taking 50% of the daily resources.