D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[tetrasodium]

A few people spoke positively about spell point variants. I've played with and run games that used it occasionally since the 3.x days(iirc it's default in the 3.x dead lands fork). At no point have I ever seen it result in anything but casters burning all spell points on repeat casting of whatever the highest level slot they could create before declaring themselves totally tapped out and in need of a rest unless the group is cool with them serving in the role of luggage. Every single caster using spell points in every single game with every single player in those roles.

Yes it's cool and sounds neat, but it never works out as anything other than the ttrpg equivalent of "privatized gains socialized losses"

But one would expect the rules to be at least connected to the fiction.



So when the characters are planning their attack, if one character says "Wizard, we should start by you freezing the gnolls with your [powerful spell]," but the rules say that the wizard can only cast this spell at the third round earliest, what does the wizard say? Is the character aware of that they're not capable of casting this spell right away?

Also, how does this function outside of combat?

Im not sure if you were asking how a draw steel concept would work in d&d earlier or if you were asking how it works narratively in draw steel. I'll try to answer a bit and give some links.

The closest analog to a wizard or sorcerer is the elementalist, but it's still very different. Their heroic resource is essence . Classes like the conduit talent and maybe null are really too different on some level for a brief summary. When it comes to powers, the elementalist has elemental damage powers that can add DoT-like persistence or knockbacks through various means

Essence is gained like this

Spoiler

Steel Compendium: Draw Steel Rules
backer
Essence


11 or lower: 6 fire damage
12–16: 8 fire damage
17+: 13 fire damage
Persistent 1: If the target is within distance at the start of your turn, make a power roll for this ability a
gain.

invigorating growth is another 3 essence cost ability & it does this:
Mushrooms erupt from a foe, sapping their vitality to spread strengthening spores.

Keywords: Attack, Green, Magic, RangedType: Action
Distance: Ranged 5Target: 1 creature
Power Roll + Reason:

11 or lower: 6 poison damage
12–16: 9 poison damage
17+: 14 poison damage
Effect: The mushrooms can be removed by the target or by an adjacent creature as an action. While the mushrooms are on the target, each of your allies adjacent to the target gains an edge on attacks against them.


Pinch the earth and stare into the abyss are two other 3 essence abilities and there are also some 5 essence abilities that cost 5 essence


Elementalist is (I think?) the only class that uses essence and it has mechanics for gaining it that fit well with the class's narrative fluff+mechanics. Every other class has its own unique resource gained unique class specific ways that fit the class role+narrative fluff

Editops copied a menu by accident

 

[Maxperson]

So you had no part whatsoever in their perception that time was of the essence? Given I know your attitude runs very old-school, when did the players actually create a pressure situation?

No. I present the situation. Sometimes that comes with some sort of time pressure. Usually it doesn't. The players cannot know that there isn't something happening off screen, though, so they often pressure themselves.

Believing there is pressure when there isn't is not the same as creating actual pressure. People can fool themselves into anything. That's not actually applying pressure.

There is no effective difference. Perceived pressure vs. real pressure both = moving at the same pace towards the goal. There's a reason that the saying, "Perception is greater than reality" is so often said.

When you know that you truly have all the time in the world, what's going to make you apply pressure to yourself?

The players almost never have that knowledge, because I don't sit behind the screen very often and say, "Go ahead and take your time. There's no hurry. Nothing will happen if you rest." It does happen occasionally under special circumstances, but the vast majority of the time they only have their perceptions above.

And when you're left in the dark, so you can only guess whether there is pressure or not, that's a GM effort which is...a form of pressure created by the GM. Because you, as GM, control everything the players can possibly know about the world.

And this is full of bupkis. I don't have to be like, "Hey guys. Go ahead and take your time. No worries in the world!" or else I'm creating pressure on them. The players can in fact invent pressure for themselves without any help from me.

 

[Maxperson]

I’m working on an alternate Monster Manual as part of my Patreon that breaks monsters into roles. Some roles are meant to outnumber or equal the party in size. Their hit points and defenses are based on at-will damage.

Monsters that the party outnumbers base their hit points on the characters’s most powerful abilities.

I also adjusted damage assuming that fights last two rounds. That increased threat is working out well so far.

Monsters also have a level instead of CR, so encounter design is easier.

What is the difference between CR and level?

 

[Zardnaar]

Fun for who? The players are having fun casting all the spells they want and using all their cool abilities. The GM may or may not be having fun, but there seem to be plenty here (even GMs) who don't have any issues with player fun being more important than their own, or who are selfless enough to get all their enjoyment from facilitating the enjoyment of others.

I dont mind d 5MWD. Not all of the time.

Depends if PCs have to heal up sometimes whatever the narrative is going with.

My players dont abuse the 5MWD. If everyone's having fun who cares?

 

[Yaarel]

A few people spoke positively about spell point variants. I've played with and run games that used it occasionally since the 3.x days(iirc it's default in the 3.x dead lands fork). At no point have I ever seen it result in anything but casters burning all spell points on repeat casting of whatever the highest level slot they could create before declaring themselves totally tapped out and in need of a rest unless the group is cool with them serving in the role of luggage. Every single caster using spell points in every single game with every single player in those roles.

The problem with 3e spell points is, the refresh per long rest. Thus there is a vast amount of spell points that can all be spent for a nova during a single encounter. Thus any particular encounter can be trivialized.

In a 5e context, switching to a short-rest spell point system mitigates this. There simply are not enough spell points at any given time for an extreme nova. Meanwhile, 5e cantrips are available to conserve spell points until really needed, or oppositely to press onward after having the spent the spell points.

The 5e 1-hour short rest, is doable in many narrative situations. But the DM can still narratively interrupt it to prevent a spell point refresh, for whatever purpose a DM has in mind.

The Laserllama Psion is a fullcaster that relies on a short-rest spell point system. It works well in a 5e game engine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I dont mind d 5MWD. Not all of the time.

Depends if PCs have to heal up sometimes whatever the narrative is going with.

My players dont abuse the 5MWD. If everyone's having fun who cares?

If everyone's having fun, yes.

 

[James Gasik]

The thing I don't understand is when someone casts Leomund's, if the bad guys spot them (in any adventure), they can go get reinforcements - like a lot of them. There are drawbacks to that hut. There are, of course, other ways the hut can be made to hurt PCs as well, like trapping the area around where the PCs are resting. Creating glyphs in the next room. Leaving the area and going somewhere else to do your dirty work. Identifying exactly who is in the hut, where they live, and then leaving to go harm someone they care about. Etc, etc, etc.

I really like the spell and have used it many times without incidence. In Tomb, I used it to create a bug free sleeping zone. In another adventure, I used it to thwart the extreme cold that would have brought the exhausted condition. And of course I have used it for rests. But it never seemed like an issue. Of course, I have always played in a game where narrative consequences matter.

How many enemies, do you suppose, know what LTH even is? Can they make the necessary Arcana check to know that the opaque thing that arrows and spears bounce off of contains enemies? It's easy to assume enemies are prepared for the player's shenanigans, but in reality, the monsters should know as much about the PC's as the PC's know about the monsters- and since 5e lacks a dedicated monster knowledge system, that runs into it's own problems.

You have DM's who don't think players should know about Trolls until they fight them, so why do monsters get a pass to go "oho, a 3rd level Arcane Ritual! Go get those emergency Dispel Magic scrolls!".

Some adventures aren't designed to take LTH into account. Or Rope Trick. Or Catnap. Or Galder's Tower. Or House of Cards. Or Alarm. I could go on, but there's any number of tools players are handed to them by the game itself to overcome challenges in the field.

Also, again, if we as DM's have to go to such lengths to make sure the players don't use said tools just to make the game run smoothly, isn't that a huge problem? Why are we forced to fight against the system itself when we want, say, rations to matter in a world with Goodberry or Create Food and Water? When we want to force players to rest on our schedule, when the game literally says to them "if you want to rest, use this!". At what point are we making sure there are enemies immune to radiant damage so Spirit Guardians doesn't wreck every encounter with large numbers of enemies? At what point do we avoid using undead because the Cleric might turn them?

Why not just encase entire dungeons in antimagic zones if the system can't handle the existence of magic?

I believe that getting into an arms race with one's own players isn't healthy for a good game- so why does 5e seem to encourage us to do just that?

 

[James Gasik]

How many enemies, do you suppose, know what LTH even is? Can they make the necessary Arcana check to know that the opaque thing that arrows and spears bounce off of contains enemies? It's easy to assume enemies are prepared for the player's shenanigans, but in reality, the monsters should know as much about the PC's as the PC's know about the monsters- and since 5e lacks a dedicated monster knowledge system, that runs into it's own problems.

You have DM's who don't think players should know about Trolls until they fight them, so why do monsters get a pass to go "oho, a 3rd level Arcane Ritual! Go get those emergency Dispel Magic scrolls!".

Some adventures aren't designed to take LTH into account. Or Rope Trick. Or Catnap. Or Galder's Tower. Or House of Cards. Or Alarm. I could go on, but there's any number of tools players are handed to them by the game itself to overcome challenges in the field.

Also, again, if we as DM's have to go to such lengths to make sure the players don't use said tools just to make the game run smoothly, isn't that a huge problem? Why are we forced to fight against the system itself when we want, say, rations to matter in a world with Goodberry or Create Food and Water? When we want to force players to rest on our schedule, when the game literally says to them "if you want to rest, use this!". At what point are we making sure there are enemies immune to radiant damage so Spirit Guardians doesn't wreck every encounter with large numbers of enemies? At what point do we avoid using undead because the Cleric might turn them?

Why not just encase entire dungeons in antimagic zones if the system can't handle the existence of magic?

I believe that getting into an arms race with one's own players isn't healthy for a good game- so why does 5e seem to encourage us to do just that?

Btw, before anyone comments, House of Cards is a silly spell and I mentioned it as a joke.

 

[Zardnaar]

If everyone's having fun, yes.

Exactly thats it.

 

[Minigiant]

But again, if the players are happy with their cool powers and the GMs aren't, what do you do? Are players complaining about this? I see a lot of GMs in this thread.

The GMs aren't happy.

The Players are happy... Until they hear of a table that has better boss fights or remember their video game boss fights.

Blame Vidya games.