D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Maxperson]

Quantum allies then?

No.

They have allies within distance when you go 8 encounters and are spent as well as when you do 3 encounters and rest.

The number of encounters has no bearing on whether or not they have allies within range.

Either way you are spending 24 hours in the area.

If so then guerrilla tactics make the most sense if not rush by narrative.

I don't know what you mean here.

 

[Yaarel]

Indeed, narratively, one can have

Yeah, too narrativist for me, mate. Like I watn the wizard to able to in-character answer when they're able to cast their big spells again and I want the characters, and not just the players, to be able to make plans based on this information. And same for the NPCs.

For my D&D style, I want magic to relate to the psychological state of the mage. Being confident or panicking matters for stories about magic. Magic isnt mechanical like loading a bullet into a gun is mechanical.

The characters know if a mage has their "game on", just like characters know if a character is fatiguing or bloodied.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, either you're always going to have to deal with 300 goblins with rest or 300 goblins without rest, right? Do3s anyone really think the players can handle 300 goblins without resting?

Yes but that defeats the purpose and idea of a living moving setting if the DM uses quantum reinforcement. Players run PCs based on their understanding of the world around them.

Many DMs and Worldbuilders can't accept that if you give the PCs a bunch of magic, tech, and skill but have the monsters are primitive chaotic idiots and beasts with no friends because EVIL, the PCs can dictate a lot.

This is probably why D&D goes planar after level 8 or so .

Simple primitive monsters are easy to run but easy to outmaneuver

Complex caster/maneuver/tech monsters are harder to run but harder to outmaneuver.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hand them a shortbow.

Can do that but also xan go under cheesing the CR system.

I can give a CR2 xaster fireball and RAW at higher levels throw 40 of them at PCs.

5.5 specifically says not to do that.

16 goblin minions RAW with shortbows is leaning towards tpk.

See previous comment about cherry picking certain monsters and abusing them.

 

[SkidAce]

Can do that but also xan go under cheesing the CR system.

I can give a CR2 xaster fireball and RAW at higher levels throw 40 of them at PCs.

5.5 specifically says not to do that.

16 goblin minions RAW with shortbows is leaning towards tpk.

See previous comment about cherry picking certain monsters and abusing them.

I hear your point about CR.

But if I was concerned that the mobs had no ranged weapons in a scenario where (10 average int) they may have them, I might give some a shortbow and recalculate the cr of the battle.

Also, wasn't there some verbiage somewhere about changing weapons was negligible to cr? (i could certainly be wrong)

 

[Zardnaar]

I hear your point about CR.

But if I was concerned that the mobs had no ranged weapons in a scenario where (10 average int) they may have them, I might give some a shortbow and recalculate the cr of the battle.

Also, wasn't there some verbiage somewhere about changing weapons was negligible to cr? (i could certainly be wrong)

There is that but I think they mean switching between a mace and sword.

Not upgrading a d4 to d8 or cheesing a melee monster into a ranger one.

Adding 6 or 8 goblin minions is one thing. At level 13 I think I can use 800 of them.

Still less scary than 40 npcs casting fireball or sone other AoE low CR cheese.

5.5 basically said dont do that anyway.

By level 12 youre looking at 20-40 CR2 and 3 RAW. Generally ive been testing the rules with a handful of higher XR critters and 6-10 "mooks" to round out the encounter. Occasional solo or swarm or solo+mooks.

I messed up the CR on some archers (CR 2 they were really 3) and inflicted lots of damage on the PCs using 8 of them.

That was 4 Cz4 6s, 8 CR "2" and a CR 10.

At level 7 I had PCs shut down a CR 13 with wall of fire and command spam.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yes but that defeats the purpose and idea of a living moving setting if the DM uses quantum reinforcement. Players run PCs based on their understanding of the world around them.

Many DMs and Worldbuilders can't accept that if you give the PCs a bunch of magic, tech, and skill but have the monsters are primitive chaotic idiots and beasts with no friends because EVIL, the PCs can dictate a lot.

This is probably why D&D goes planar after level 8 or so .

Simple primitive monsters are easy to run but easy to outmaneuver

Complex caster/maneuver/tech monsters are harder to run but harder to outmaneuver.

I think that's where the game really starts seeing the consequences of the choice not to include things like monster templates the gm could quickly & easily and casually apply almost on the fly with minimal overhead when situations justify the GM cranking the power knobs for whatever reasons and results are needed at the time. Sure the gm could add class levels, but that's a lot more messy juggling for the gm to manage and prone to encouraging debate than applying a template that is already somewhat related to the narrative state of fiction when done. Whatever is being used as baddies are usually as prepared for an attack as they could be and usually expecting it to some degree. If they had a "backhand slap a nova capable party of PCs" ace hiding in their pocket that's just a card that they would have played from the start.

Without the templates to stack on it becomes difficult for the gm to scale up say a living functioning faction of the emerald claw that was somehow directly empowered by an entity like Vol herself daddy a Lord of dust or some knowledge left behind by any number of historical groups once known for wielding power far beyond the outer edge of what could still be called an artifact.

I think that in the past it was difficult enough to rest up fully in hostile territory that players naturally treated an adventure"going planar" as just a new area within the game world they were still bound to rather than an excuse to shrug while kicking the old-n-busted realm of mere mortals to the curb the second it became inconvenient in some way to immediate gains in power.

 

[Azzy]

Which is drawback of simplified enemy statblocks. If they have proper PC-like features this can also inform what they can do out of combat.

The problem with monsters being built like PCs is that that gets tedious real quick. It's one of the reasons that I abandoned 3.5e for 5e.

I often give enemy spellcasters more spells, and tend to assume that despite their simplified combat profiles they "actually" have PC-like casting capabilities for narrative purposes. I also like boosting humanoid enemies by giving them class features such as sneak attack and rage.

The 2024 DMG has suggestions for making such minor alterations to existing monsters.

 

[Minigiant]

I think that's where the game really starts seeing the consequences of the choice not to include things like monster templates the gm could quickly & easily and casually apply almost on the fly with minimal overhead when situations justify the GM cranking the power knobs for whatever reasons and results are needed at the time. Sure the gm could add class levels, but that's a lot more messy juggling for the gm to manage and prone to encouraging debate than applying a template that is already somewhat related to the narrative state of fiction when done. Whatever is being used as baddies are usually as prepared for an attack as they could be and usually expecting it to some degree. If they had a "backhand slap a nova capable party of PCs" ace hiding in their pocket that's just a card that they would have played from the start

Giving all your goblins Venom Strike because the goblin alchemist hands out vials of poison, some of your goblin warrior pull the great swords off the sacred alter to become Darkaxes, and having the goblin shaman get Summon Mephit 1/day as they prepare spells for battle over daily maintenance is a quick and easy way to enhance monsters.

I think that in the past it was difficult enough to rest up fully in hostile territory that players naturally treated an adventure"going planar" as just a new area within the game world they were still bound to rather than an excuse to shrug while kicking the old-n-busted realm of mere mortals to the curb the second it became inconvenient in some way to immediate gains in power

Also games didn't get to high levels back in the day and older editions forced spells into slots. So preparing escape and shelter spells to rest was a preplanned uncertainty.

 

[Maxperson]

The problem with monsters being built like PCs is that that gets tedious real quick. It's one of the reasons that I abandoned 3.5e for 5e.

Casters at high level were my pain point with 3e. However, for kicks I had ChatGPT create some high level casters for 3e and it did well enough that I would only have to tweak them a bit. If I ran 3e again, I'd make use of that.