Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Zardnaar]

[Citation needed]

General online insistence for at will attack granting (see this thread).

5E has a different paradigm its not D&D Tactics: The Miniatures JRPG game.

 

[i_dont_meta]

If you read the intro to the Bard in the PHB, you'll find they already planted the seeds for the Warlord many moons ago, like so many other Easter Eggs you can find in the Core 3...

 

[Zardnaar]

If you read the intro to the Bard in the PHB, you'll find they already planted the seeds for the Warlord many moons ago, like so many other Easter Eggs you can find in the Core 3...

Mearls out right stated they split it between the BM Fighter and Valor Bard.

I don't think nayone cares to much about the Warlord concept existing a few 4E players want fully functional 4E warlords and then get upset when WoTC won't give it to them.

5E Paladins and Wizards do not work the way it used to, Speciality priests died with 2E. Is it reasonable to expect a Warlord in 5E yes, is it reaosnable to expect a fully functioning/empowered 4E style warlord in the game well not really.

 

[TwoSix]

Those classes do not also heal though, at least as well as a cleric. Something has to give either the attack granting or the healing rate and I do nto think attack granting at will is a good idea in 5E (you could use more superiority dice than the BM fighter) because of how it interacts with things like Rogues (any), Hunter Rangers (basic atack + 1d6+1d8 is great vs clerics anaemic damage)..

To be an in-combat healer in 5e, you really only need one function; the ability to bring someone from 0 hp to positive hp. Out-of-combat healing in 5e is either addressed with Hit Dice, or someone has taken one of the many ways to make it almost trivial (Life Cleric + Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Lore Bard w/Aura of Vitality).

This is the way I look at action granting. Would you rather have a party of either:

1) Fighter + Cleric + Wizard + Rogue + Class X.
2) Fighter + Cleric + Wizard + Rogue + Magic Stick that lets one of the other characters take one extra action each turn?

To my mind, it's pretty obvious that I'd rather have Class X, no matter what class X is. The magic stick provides actions, but produces no resources. Even if magic stick uses the Wizard's action to cast Fireball, you're not getting twice as many fireballs, you're simply getting a fireball on Magic Stick's initiative count, instead of the Wizard's count on round 2. It's a tactical strength, sure, but shouldn't that be the exact kind of flavor a warlord should provide?

And since there's some daylight the capabilities between Class X and Magic Stick (my stand in for a warlord with at-will action granting, which I hope was obvious), that means there must exist a theoretical class chassis that supports it. I would say something like Rogue strength, with a scaling action granting feature replacing sneak attack. Add some flavor abilities, and some minor healing abilities, and it's pretty much good to go.

 

[Yunru]

Mearls out right stated they split it between the BM Fighter and Valor Bard.

I don't think nayone cares to much about the Warlord concept existing a few 4E players want fully functional 4E warlords and then get upset when WoTC won't give it to them.

5E Paladins and Wizards do not work the way it used to, Speciality priests died with 2E. Is it reasonable to expect a Warlord in 5E yes, is it reaosnable to expect a fully functioning/empowered 4E style warlord in the game well not really.

[Citation (actual citation, not the "go look" rubbish) needed]

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

D&D Tactics: The Miniatures JRPG game.

I would play the heck out of that...

 

[Mistwell]

Is there a 5e third party warlord that folks are generally happy about?

People can't be "generally" happy with third party solutions, since lots of groups play with WotC official material only, or play in the Adventurer's League.

I think you mistook the tone there Capn. From my read, Darjr is asking if there is a third party solution people like which WOTC could model their official version on. No reason to jump on him as if he said you should all be using the third party products and like them or else.

 

[VisanidethDM]

General online insistence for at will attack granting (see this thread).

5E has a different paradigm its not D&D Tactics: The Miniatures JRPG game.

I love the smell of edition warring in the morning.


However, I fundamentally agree with the point made: the core problem with recreating the Warlord in 5E is... 5E.

5E is a very, very, very, very simple game. The core game's engine doesn't have the bandwidth to handle a class like the 4E warlord. You can't simply take concepts from different editions and try to adapt them to games that work with fundamentally different action economies and mathematical engines.


So to follow from your example (but removing the edition warring bit), if 4E is chess, 5E is Uno. You can't port mechanics from one to the other.

 

[Yunru]

I love the smell of edition warring in the morning.


However, I fundamentally agree with the point made: the core problem with recreating the Warlord in 5E is... 5E.

5E is a very, very, very, very simple game. The core game's engine doesn't have the bandwidth to handle a class like the 4E warlord. You can't simply take concepts from different editions and try to adapt them to games that work with fundamentally different action economies and mathematical engines.


So to follow from your example (but removing the edition warring bit), if 4E is chess, 5E is Uno. You can't port mechanics from one to the other.

Except you can. It was done without complaint for the oh-so-cherished Wizard and their Haste spell.

It's also pretty easy maths.
The system expects that with 5 people there's, say, 5 attacks.
4 people making one attack and 1 person letting someone make an extra attack comes out to 5 attacks.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

How about Warlord's non-magical healing ability gives options to spend Hit Dice during combat.

There's already precedent with the Dwarven Fortitude feat from Xanathar's Guide.