D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[Minigiant]

I mean, that means it was on purpose.

They just didn't specifically set out to do that. They clearly had vision for what 5e would be, more than once, but steadily ceded more and more and more ground over time. That's why they surrendered the playtest Sorcerer/Warlock. That's why they abandoned the "tactical combat module". That's why the "Fighter Warlord" and martial healing were total vaporware despite Mearls giving a full-throated defenses of the latter on Twitter.

I don't know if I was the person who called it an "apology edition" first. But I've definitely called it that many times, and there's a very good reason for it. It is shackled to a bizarre hybrid of 3rd edition structure and old school concepts, not really achieving what either side particularly wanted. They took no action which might offend the delicate sensibilities of the angry 3e and 2e edition warriors who were busy with their victory dance.

The designers had a bias to old school gaming. However it was the survey results that tilted the game by cutting good ideas.

Overall from 2nd edition to 3rd edition to 4th edition to 5th edition all we've been doing is given the fan base less and less restrictions so it's no surprise that they voted for less restriction and end up with a situation where their low restriction spells can control the hell out of the boss monsters.

The mistake the designers did is not sneak in to counterweights for these restrictions.

The counterweights can be hidden.

I bet you 75% of the people who bought 5.5 don't realize that most mid to high level legendary monsters have Proficiency in three saving throws.

"The players will vote out the fun of the game.
Designers have to sneak it back in."

 

[mamba]

The wheels don’t come off, but my little city car is not very stable at 80+ mph. But that would involve breaking the law, so it shouldn’t be doing that anyway.

except that in the analogy being level 15 is not illegal… and depending on the country driving 80 mph is not either

 

[Mort]

It still baffles me that they removed Bloodied from 5.0. Like...I know it's got 4e cooties on it, but it's useful. Like it's legitimately one of the most useful, and more importantly SIMPLE, mechanics to come out of 4e. You'd think if they kept anything, it'd be that and the way 4e did critical hits, but nope! Stinks too much of 4e, can't be used.

2024 HAS the bloodied condition, right in the Players Handbook.

And there are monsters in the 2024 MM that use it (like the boar and flesh golem).

Edit: and there are feats and subclasses that use it too.

 

[Minigiant]

except that in the analogy being level 15 is not illegal… and depending on the country driving 80 mph is not either

It's more accurate that the car was designed for the city where it works fine at 25mph but wheels come off at 55mph because they forgot to test on the highway.

Things like boss monsters breakdown because mid and high level were not priorities of the old school crowd.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not saying it's the ultimate solution.

My point is F/R/W 3 saves exacerbates the problem so much that returning to it would require a lot of changes to the base system.

There’s actually 2 ‘problems’

1. Monsters failing control saves too easily. Going to 3 saves should help monsters as however you combine them monsters will probably go up on the save. Definitely not down on it.

2. Players failing saves too easily. Combing saves means players still likely have at least 1 common weakness. As far as i can tell not much really changes here by going from 6 to 3.