D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[Zardnaar]

It's not just damage per attack and per round that was messed up. Much of the problem is rooted in pointless changes like the shift from 3 functional& thematic saves+totally neutral SR to a pointlessly minced to and distinguishable 6 saves +arbitrary feeling LR...or the fact that rather than casters using things like sling crossbow and racially proficient bow with mediocre results when not casting from a spell slot they can now be expected to pump out cantrips with scaling numbers of dice based on tier.

All of that kinda stuff degrades the impact of spike damage at cost abilities by raising the floor dramatically. Even worse is that with the shift to neovancian prep the system no longer has meaningful trafeoffs for the "at cost" part because any slot can be dynamically used on the fly as needed

I think the original sin lies with 3.0 and how saves scale. 4E used the nuke it approach but threw the baby out with the bath water.

6 saves. We are stuck with them until 6E. Go back to 3 imho add youre level to all saves or something. Landing them reliably should require debuffs imho.

Right now I would be happy bring back scaling damage, nuking control from orbit and improving SR/MR.

You can still summon, buff etc. 2 hybrid control/support and 3 strikers seems the most meta party ATM.

 

[Lanefan]

Short term fix woukd be 2d6 on the upcast.

Better fix would be to just let damage spells auto-scale with level like they did in 1e-2e, and ditch upcasting completely.

Fireball: 3rd level spell, does d6* per level based on your caster level. Boom. Simple. Done.

* - or d8, if d6 isn't enough.

 

[Zardnaar]

Better fix would be to just let damage spells auto-scale with level like they did in 1e-2e, and ditch upcasting completely.

Fireball: 3rd level spell, does d6* per level based on your caster level. Boom. Simple. Done.

* - or d8, if d6 isn't enough.

Same opinion. Scaling boom spells are less broken than 3E and 5E save DCs.

Remember Warmage being OP in 3.5? Neither do I.

2E fireball probably to good. 3.0/3.5 decent and ok.

 

[Horwath]

Better fix would be to just let damage spells auto-scale with level like they did in 1e-2e, and ditch upcasting completely.

Fireball: 3rd level spell, does d6* per level based on your caster level. Boom. Simple. Done.

* - or d8, if d6 isn't enough.

then again we come to 3E; linear fighter/quadratic wizard.
where spells level basically for free.
with spell points it would be even finer scaling.

I do not mind cantrips as most of the time, using cantrips is waste of an action in combat. Unless you specialize in cantrip usage(warlock).

 

[Minigiant]

I think the original sin lies with 3.0 and how saves scale. 4E used the nuke it approach but threw the baby out with the bath water.

6 saves. We are stuck with them until 6E. Go back to 3 imho add youre level to all saves or something. Landing them reliably should require debuffs imho.

Right now I would be happy bring back scaling damage, nuking control from orbit and improving SR/MR.

You can still summon, buff etc. 2 hybrid control/support and 3 strikers seems the most meta party ATM.

I still don't trust WOTC with 3 saves. But 6 saves, 5 saves, 3 saves doesn't matter.

Most important things are

• Monsters at mid level or about should have at least 65% of their saving throw bonuses be good.
• Saving throws should be targeted equally
  • Less impact saving throws should be very frequent
  • High impact saving throws should be less frequent
  • No defaulting everything to one particular saving throw
• Solo and legendary monsters should have an additional layer of saving throw difference
  • Counterspells
  • Legendary Resistance
  • Magic Resistance
  • Magic Wards/Shields
  • Several condition immunity
  • Spell immunity
• Saving throw debuffs are not cheap

 

[AnotherGuy]

Better fix would be to just let damage spells auto-scale with level like they did in 1e-2e, and ditch upcasting completely.

Fireball: 3rd level spell, does d6* per level based on your caster level. Boom. Simple. Done.

* - or d8, if d6 isn't enough.

Interesting proposal

Let us run through 3 examples

FIREBALL
1e-2e method
5th level wizard casts 3rd level spell Fireball - 8d6
6th level - 9d6
8th level - 11d6
10th level - 13d6
15th level - 18d6

variant 5e, increase potency on upcast
wizard casts 3rd level spell Fireball - 8d6
4th level spell - 10d6
5th level spell - 12d6
6th level spell - 14d6
7th level spell - 16d6
9th level spell - 18d6

ICE STORM
1e-2e method
7th level wizard cast 4th level spell Ice Storm - 2d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
8th level - 3d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
10th level - 5d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
15th level - 10d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
20th level - 15d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold

variant 5e, increase potency on upcast
7th level wizard cast 4th level spell Ice Storm - 2d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
5th level spell - 4d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
6th level spell - 6d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
7th level spell - 8d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold
9th level spell - 10d8 bludgeoning + 4d6 cold

CONE OF COLD
1e-2e method
9th level wizard cast 5th level spell Cone of Cold - 8d8
10th level - 9d8
13th level - 12d8
15th level - 14d8
18th level - 17d8
20th level - 19d8

variant 5e, increase potency on upcast
9th level wizard cast 5th level spell Cone of Cold - 8d8
6th level - 10d8
7th level - 12d8
8th level - 14d8
9th level - 16d8

One should really be doing this exercise on an excel worksheet to see if there are any issues with any of the spells.
The 1e-2e method is obviously better.
Hopefully I haven't made too many mistakes.