D&D General Mike Mearls sits down with Ben from Questing Beast

[Micah Sweet]

I've just started reading this thread, so I apologize if it's been addressed. I remember what you said: Initially, 5E was viewed as a return to form for old-school play. I believe this was because it was a "keep the lights on" edition to start with, and the devs were very much trying to attract the lapsed audience.

Then, with Covid, Stranger Things, Critical Role ... a lot of other things, it became popular. There was a huge influx of new players who were much younger and have (in my experience) a very different way of looking at RPGs. And I definitely believe that WotC pivoted to accommodate them because that's where they saw all the new money coming from.

5E right now is (again, in my opinion) trying to very much not be an old-school game.

I understand the reasoning for the pivot; makes sense. I just think the decent way to make it would be to shift editions officially, and not the fuzzy half-way method they used to give us 5.5.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Well, it makes sense. At the time Mike et. al. were working on 5E no one at Hasbro really cared because they didn't expect anything financial to come of it. So it was all just the D&D team trying to make a game that would please as many players as possible.

But now that D&D 5E is actually a money-maker for the company, Hasbro / WotC is making sure to put things in place to help generate additional funds from it. Which should not be surprising at all. And any players who don't like that idea should do themselves the favor of moving on to a different game that is still in its infancy if they really want that "Game made just for players, not for money" new-car smell. It's merely the 'indy band before they become popular' scenario.

I'll just say that you can be player-driven and still make lotsa money. I mean, 5e2014 actually proved this.

 

[aiouh]

I'll just say that you can be player-driven and still make lotsa money. I mean, 5e2014 actually proved this.

Whatever D&D makes is probably still not enough according to WotC/Hasbro suits. Mainly TTRPG gamers might think that WotC is in some insane monopoly money printing position, but in terms of monetization and raw sales it lags far behind MtG so much that Hasbro desperately tries to hide its annual Revenue by lumping it together with their other tabletop sales

https://investor.hasbro.com/static-files/721d5571-d5e1-4184-943f-43a3ad0d0fc5

 

[SlyFlourish]

It is a tough nut for sure. I think I want a simplified game, but I also want interesting choices at character creation, advancement, and during play. I am not sure how to achieve that. OSR / Shadowdark are to simple for my tastes (though the have ideas I like) and PF2 is to complex for my tastes (though it has ideas I like). 5e14 & 5e24 are somewhere in the middle, but I seem to want something that is both simplified and more complex (compared to 5e) at the same time!

I agree. It's a careful balance.

I have fond memories of Shadow of the Demon Lord and 13th Age which seemed to play fairly straight forward without a ton of extra cruft. I'm looking forward to trying them again this year.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Heh. I was in that conversation he talks about at Gameholecon

And yes the OGL thing was radioactive.

You were there?? Did I meet you and forgot? I was on the panel!

 

[mamba]

Whatever D&D makes is probably still not enough according to WotC/Hasbro suits. Mainly TTRPG gamers might think that WotC is in some insane monopoly money printing position, but in terms of monetization and raw sales it lags far behind MtG so much that Hasbro desperately tries to hide its annual Revenue by lumping it together with their other tabletop sales

it will never be enough for the suits, so that does not feel like a relevant criteria. Their need to generate ever more money is not working so great on the MtG side from what I hear (not that I follow MtG), so I am not expecting all that much on the D&D side either

The big question mark is their VTT, they poured more money into it than in D&D over its lifetime, and so far they have very little to show for it…

 

[dave2008]

13th Age?

I have the original, but it didn't quite scratch my itch at the time. However, it may be worth going back and looking at it again. Any reason to upgrade to 2nd edition?

 

[mamba]

I have the original, but it didn't quite scratch my itch at the time. However, it may be worth going back and looking at it again. Any reason to upgrade to 2nd edition?

we’ll let you know once that is out

 

[Arilyn]

I have the original, but it didn't quite scratch my itch at the time. However, it may be worth going back and looking at it again. Any reason to upgrade to 2nd edition?

I read 13th Age and had some doubts. Played it and fell in love. I haven't looked much into the 2nd edition development. I think I'm nervous. Will definitely take a look once it's out though.

 

[dave2008]

we’ll let you know once that is out

My mistake, I thought it was out already