Min/Max your Min/Max'ing

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[Hellzon]

On the other hand, you only wear one helmet, and not there!

 

[Wormwood]

. . . it does market to a portion of the players of the game.

Since 1974.

 

[Layander]

I think what I am mostly seeing here is, one of three things, Some say min/maxing isnt that bad but there are other play options, some say min/maxing is how the game is supposed to be played, and then trolls who tease for me posting this question in the first place.
I guess it does answer my question, no one is directly oposed to min maxing any more, being worried about it in todays world is i guess a pointless fad.
And I can live with that, I guess, its differant than what I am used to but I can live with it.
The only problem I have with it now, I guess, are all of the horrible things I have seen because of some people who min maxed in my groups. I know experiances vary from group to group and I can imagine where people who go to far into any one play style can be a detraction from the game. If thats, min/maxing, roleplaying, or joketelling to much of one or the other can be a problem.
I like being able to discuss things here so let me ask about specific problems I have had with some players I personally play with who Min/Max to a negative impact on the game.
Let me start with a min/maxing rules lawyer. He spends hours pouring over books, spending several days or weeks before putting a character down on the table, the character is a book with over 100 pages of every feat ability and spell he will ever take on any level every magic item he will ever take ect. The problem happens when he is informed that he selectively reads the abilities always in his favor, he ignores stacking rules if it helps him but points them out if it hurts the DM or another player, and if you refuse to accept his interpetation of the rule he has to stop playing the game and spend another week planing out all 30 levels of character progression because that feat being gone ruined the math for all the levels of his character.
This is the first of several problems I have seen, I am not trying to be argumentitive, just trying to see a variety of ideas on the subject, I appreciate everyone being polite and discussing this with me so I can see how you would deal with this if you were in my place. Thank you so much for your time.

 

[Dandu]

Sounds like someone has DnD OCD. I don't even spend that much time planning out my characters.

 

[N0Man]

It doesn't really bother me. Maybe it's a joke, maybe they are trying to appeal to a certain segment, but it doesn't matter. They try to appeal to several audiences, because they realize there is more than one audience to D&D.

If you look at the 4E DMG, you will notice that it addresses that some people have different play styles, and rather than trying to judge or say that one play style is better than another, it gives tips on motivating players of different styles and keeping everyone happy.

I think it's good advice. Some of us prefer certain styles over others, but those of other styles *can* add to a game if you become more accepting and less judgmental. That applies whether the other guy is an expert roleplayer or a great min-maxer with rules mastery. As long as you keep them from ruining the fun of the rest of the table, they both can be an asset.

 

[tallyrand]

Ah. OK. No big deal.


My fighters better than your fighter
My fighters better than yooouuurr fighter
My fighters better
Cause I use martial power
My fighters better than yours

That about it?

You have to do the dance too...

 

[Glyfair]

I have had with some players I personally play with who Min/Max to a negative impact on the game.
Let me start with a min/maxing rules lawyer. He spends hours pouring over books, spending several days or weeks before putting a character down on the table, the character is a book with over 100 pages of every feat ability and spell he will ever take on any level every magic item he will ever take ect. The problem happens when he is informed that he selectively reads the abilities always in his favor, he ignores stacking rules if it helps him but points them out if it hurts the DM or another player, and if you refuse to accept his interpetation of the rule he has to stop playing the game and spend another week planing out all 30 levels of character progression because that feat being gone ruined the math for all the levels of his character.

That is a problem with that particular player. There are problem players of all types. I have seen the several different types of players who take their character immersion. I have seen the anti-optimization player (deliberately making a poor combat character in a campaign that clearly will have major combat elements). I have seen the self-absorbed roleplayer ("that's what my character will do and whether it ruins the fun of everyone else at the table should never be considered."

Any style of play can be bad if taken to extremes. Even if not taken to extremes it can be tough if done in the wrong group. The player who marches to the different drummer can certainly cause issues just by being out of step with the rest of the group. Either you learn to accommodate each other, or someone needs to go their own (gaming) way when it gets too bad.

 

[Salamandyr]

I have had as much if not more trouble with players who intentionally design their characters to be un-optimized, as I do ones who powergame.

For instance, the guy who likes playing gnomish barbarians, or the one who insists on taking innapropriate or unsafe actions, because it's "in character". In character? Maybe, but it starts to stretch credibility for my character that he would continue to hang about with such a boob.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Let me start with a min/maxing rules lawyer. He spends hours pouring over books, spending several days or weeks before putting a character down on the table, the character is a book with over 100 pages of every feat ability and spell he will ever take on any level every magic item he will ever take ect. The problem happens when he is informed that he selectively reads the abilities always in his favor, he ignores stacking rules if it helps him but points them out if it hurts the DM or another player, and if you refuse to accept his interpetation of the rule he has to stop playing the game and spend another week planing out all 30 levels of character progression because that feat being gone ruined the math for all the levels of his character.

He sounds familiar. Are his initials K.M.? Seriously though, cheaters suck. And your player is a cheater for the reasons I bolded above. This is how he's gapping the power curve and coming out so much better than other characters. 4E (I assume since you stated 30 levels) smooths out the power curve enough to avoid powergamer vs. average gamer gaps that he would have to resort to cheating to notice any huge difference. That or your other players would have to deliberately try to make sucky characters. Other games have wider power curves and can cause a bigger problem. Don't ever play Rifts with this guy!