Min/Maxed Sorcerer questions

[shurai]

Do you guys have any spontanaity in your games at all? I'm playing a low-level elf wizard and I can't decide between Arcane Archer and Loremaster, much less planning every last spell. I see what the difference is, as with sorcerer making bad spell choices has more serious consequences, but don't you find it boring to know ahead of time what all your character's career choices are going to be?

Anyway, I had some thoughts:

It may not be the best idea to plan all your character's spells with being a 20th level sorcerer in mind, because if you want to seriously min-max, you'll always be weaker than a sorcerer optimized for his current level. You'll only really shine at those higher levels because you gave up the spells that rocked when everyone had +1 weapons. Also, your character will get killed more often if you don't have some of the good spells at lower-levels, because that's the way it works.

I'm not saying you shouldn't plan for the future, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't pick your spells with the unique problems of the sorcerer in mind, but don't overdo it.

As Yoda would say, be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment.

-S

 

[Dakeyras]

Re: Min/Max Sorcerer

Definitely get the Contemplative, that boost to your saves is great. Also if using FFG's Path of Magic go for Force Weaver, the ability to sub force for any energy type is just too good to ignore for any offense oriented caster. Of course you have to get your DM to agree. Finally make sure you and your DM are using the same sorc class. There are a few variations out there and the BOEMII one seems to be popular.

On a side note I thought the Contemplative received spellcasting exactly like a 1st level cleric including granted domains?

Dakeyras

 

[apsuman]

Do you guys have any spontanaity in your games at all? I'm playing a low-level elf wizard and I can't decide between Arcane Archer and Loremaster, much less planning every last spell. I see what the difference is, as with sorcerer making bad spell choices has more serious consequences, but don't you find it boring to know ahead of time what all your character's career choices are going to be?

...snip...

As Yoda would say, be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the moment.

-S

Sure I enjoy my games, and yes, there is spontanaity.

The sorcerer class is rather unforgiving in that it does not allow you to change spells once selected. All of the advice I gave is really applicable to most of the core classes. Simply know y9our game, your DM, your rule zeroes.

But, if I may illustrate with an example. A fighter that chooses bow feats exclusively can be a really good archer. But at any time if he had to he can draw his sword and charge into melee. Absent the best melee feats he still has his HP, BAB and possible armor selection helping him out there. He might not be as good as that party's tank fighter but is still probably better than the cleric. The sorcerer can not easily do that. His spells tie him forever to certain roles. Simply knowing the roles he wants to play can make a WORLD of difference between enj0oying or not enjoying the game. In short if you know bull's strength you will ALWAYS be bufifng up the party. If you know magic missle you will always be an artillery platform.

Really, my advice was nothing more than saying to the guy making the fighter, decide on the type of fighter you want to be. Melee or Archer or two weapon fighter or etc.


g!

 

[Archer]

Being able to swap out spells when you level makes for a nicer time of being a sorceror, whether its rechoose all your spells every level, swap out one spell of each level or just one spell of any level. This obviously deals with the problem of new supplements and spells becoming obsolete later. Broadening the additional spell feat to give an extra spell known of every level (perhaps still selectable multiple times) is a nice bonus but still reasonable. Quickening is practically a given in just about any but the strictest campaigns.

You don't get that many feats, there should be a reasonable selection of tempting feats out there like there are for other classes.

 

[WCT-1]

Doesn't it take a sorceror a full action to cast a quickened metamagic spell? I though this was the most useless feat for a sorceror? Am I missing something?

 

[Crothian]

Doesn't it take a sorceror a full action to cast a quickened metamagic spell? I though this was the most useless feat for a sorceror? Am I missing something?

No, you are right. There are feats like prepare spell or Sorcerer Quicken that can allow a sorcerer to get around that, though.

 

[ruleslawyer]

The Arcane Preparation feat (T&B) allows a sorcerer to prepare quickened spells, if he also has the Quicken Spell feat.

Sean Reynolds and several other former or current WotC employees have said that sorcs should be able to use the Quicken feat as well.

Me, I'm mean. I like wizards to have something a bit unique, and I think Quicken gives that edge. I allow sorcs to use quickened spells that they've prepared, or to take the Automatic Quicken Spell feat, but they can't use the normal feat.

 

[shurai]

apsuman-

I think, at core, we agree. It's definitely a good idea to plan for the future, and for certain the sorcerer class is unforgiving in that respect. I'm sure not arguing that you shouldn't know the class and the game well if you want to make a good character, but I think we do disagree in terms of degree.

To extend your example, in the balance a sorcerer's spells must be a lot more powerful than the fighter's feats, since the fighter gets a much nicer BAB, hit die, and weapon proficiency. The sorcerer does have to be careful and make good decisions for spells, but the decisions are more important only because more of the sorcerer's power is bound up in the decisions of the player. But since there are some obviously good choices for sorcerer spells (like Shield, for instance, or Magic Missile), even if you make some bad choices you'll still have a decent repertoire. The game makes fewer choices for you, is all.

-S

 

[Pax]

Ninth, use your familiar -- so plan on getting a good one. Tome and Blood has the improved familiar feat -- pseudodragons rock!. Delivering touch attacks, scouting ahead, alertness, etc. are all things that will aid in your survival.

Whew, I did not know I had that much to say.


g!

If you go for an Improved Familiar, and your DM allows Forgotten Realms material --- I strongly suggest you get a Beholderkin: Eyeball. Little, grapefruit-siuzed miniature beholder; when it delivers your touch spells, it does so with a thirty foot RAY ... very handy, much less of a problem for the familiar in terms of personal endangerment (it can stay hovering over your shoulder, happy and SAFE as can be ).

Okay, the NE alignment bit is somewhat restrictive, but TN isn't all that bad for a sorceror to be ...

 

[bret]

I always thought that the Mage of the Arcane Order would be a good PrC for a Sorcerer. It allows them (as a full round action) to get spells that are not on their list.

Some GMs might also allow the New Spell to work for a sorcerer, although the way it is written it probably shouldn't. Sorcerers are not wizards and do not have spellbooks.

If you are using the Forgotten Realms setting, look at the Cosmopolitain and Educated feats. They can help expand your class skills, make some more use of that high charisma.

In any case, a clear idea of what you want your sorcerer to be capable of and plotting out your spell selection is required. You will get very few spells, make sure each of them is a good choice.