Mind blank vs. see invisibility/true seeing

[ruleslawyer]

Before you post to this thread, go to the following:

Does mind blank defeat the effects of true strike?

So, the question I pose is simple in the phrasing, but difficult to answer: does the mind blank spell defeat detection by means of the see invisibility spell and/or the true seeing spell?

While the mind blank spell states that it "protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects," it is unclear whether "information gathering by divination spells or effects" extends to detection of a protected subject via see invisibility or true seeing.

Thoughts, interpretations, and house rules welcome!

 

[Slander]

Well, I was always of the mindset that True Strike's abilities came from an insight into your target's actions, so Mind Blank protecting against True Strike made sense to me.

I was a little shaky when it came to detecting a Mind Blanked/Invisible wizard with See Invisibility or True Seeing. My initial gut reaction was that Mind Blank does not protect from these spells, as I worked with the idea that the detection spells simply searched for the presence of active magics.

But, these two phrases in Mind Blank: " This spell protects against ... information gathering by divination spells or effects" and "Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish when they are used ... to gain information about him" makes me believe that Mind Blank, would in fact, protect against See Invis/True Seeing as these spells are in fact giving information about the Mind Blanked wizard to the caster. Also, with 3E favoring defense over offense and both of these spells being lower level than Mind Blank, I'd have to give Mind Blank the benefit of the doubt.


Slander

 

[Caliban]

I'm not sure if it was intended to or not, but from the way the mindblank spell is worded, it would seem to guard against true seeing and see invisible.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yup. I agree with Slander and Caliban.

See Invisibility and True Seeing are divination spells and both give you information as to the location of the invisible target, hence, both of them would be stopped by the "no info by divination spells on the target" clauses of Mind Blank.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

By the wording I'd say yes it does. This does seem to make mind blank one of the best 8th level spells out there though. The range of its protection far exceeds my initial estimates when reading the spell. But thanks to the recent true strike v mind blank thread I'm seeing exactly how vast this proteciton can be under the wording of the spell.

This gets realy brutal with the combination of improved invisibility, it becomesan offense aiding spell instead of defense, giving you a virtually completely undetectable wiz/sor bombarding people with spells. People are forced to rely upon completely mundane sources of detection of invisible foes, which are really hard to come by in a lot of situations where you haven't prepared explcitely for this situation.

 

[KarinsDad]

Nothing that Glitterdust or Greater Dispelling with a Readied action cannot handle.

 

[AuraSeer]

"Mundane methods" of pinpointing invisible characters are pretty easy to come by. Last I checked, the Spot and Listen skills showed up on every single character sheet.

If you're up against foes casting 8th-level spells, at least one person in the party should easily break 20 with their Spot check.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Glitterdust and mundane methods like spot and listen depend heavily upon range. I'm not going expect the open air 400' range out-door bombardment scenario for the wizard, but I also am not about to assume point blank range to help the vitims out. Considering the duraiton of mind blank these combos can be delivered virtually instantly in a fight.
The greater dispelling could work though depending on which spells the wizard cast, anything which visibly launched from the caster could easily allow the greater dispel to be targeted upon the wizard with just the 50% miss chance to contend with if targeted to hopefully drop all the wizards spells.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Thanks for the quality input, esteemed posters! Glad to know I was right in thinking the Great Mind Blank War would stay on the TS/MB thread...

Shard: What you describe is a typical tactic for the wizard PC (a converted Inv20/Acm3) in my campaign. Most smart wizards also use spells that do not originate at the caster and have the Silent Spell feat applied, and move around a bunch in order to avoid mundane detection. There is a clear counter-tactic, though: leave the area. When our wizzie starts laying down the barrage, my smarter baddies either get inside an anti-magic field or teleport away (both reasonable options for CR 15+ opponents, which is what your mind-blanked wizard should be facing.

 

[Andor of the Blade]

For a Really Ugly combination, try Mind Blank with the new spell in the Dragon issue about the Gnomes (291?). It is a 9th level spell but lasts 24 hours. IIRC, it makes the caster invisible (as II), undetectable by sound, tremorsense, blindsight, Detect Invisible (not True Sight) and smell.

If Mind Blank defeats True Sight and all divinations, this person becomes virtually undetectable. Ouch!