Mind Flayer template questions

[jontherev]

Bear with me, for I'm new to the template thang. We're starting an evil campaign and several of us are playing drow and we'll be starting off in Menzoberanzan. Anyway, I'd like to play an illithid. We get to start off at level 5. Can I do this, since they have 8 hit dice? If so, how does it work? If not, why?

Also, what are their favored class if any? Do they get any stat increases/decreases? I didn't see anything in the SRD on that. Thanks.

 

[Wolf72]

to start with a mindflayer is at minimum an ECL 8 (for 8HD) ... not sure what it is in the DMG or Dragon 293.

 

[jontherev]

to start with a mindflayer is at minimum an ECL 8 (for 8HD) ... not sure what it is in the DMG or Dragon 293.

So, could you start off as 5 hit dice and play it like that? Then go 3 more levels before being able to take class levels in, say, sorceror? Thanks.

 

[Wolf72]

wow ... that is completely up to the DM, but I think rules wise you find the ECL of a creature (hold while I get my lazy but up and look for you) ....

in Dragon 293 (don't ask why, they just did ... some I agree with, others I think are completely looney) Mindflayers are ECL +18, so that means they get to start off at first lvl while everyone else is 18th (or is it 19th).

the DMG doesn't have an ECL for mindflayers, try using this: http://www.webspawner.com/users/enbsoldarin/index.html ... it's soldarin's ECL calculator (not really, it's more like a formula ... you have to do the pen and paperwork)

... or with your DM come up with subrace for that illithid, or maybe an immature one or mutated, not fully developed one (check out the Dungeon and Dorks characters to see an example).

at 5th lvl your options are kinda limited

 

[jontherev]

wow ... that is completely up to the DM, but I think rules wise you find the ECL of a creature (hold while I get my lazy but up and look for you) ....

in Dragon 293 (don't ask why, they just did ... some I agree with, others I think are completely looney) Mindflayers are ECL +18, so that means they get to start off at first lvl while everyone else is 18th (or is it 19th).

the DMG doesn't have an ECL for mindflayers, try using this: http://www.webspawner.com/users/enbsoldarin/index.html ... it's soldarin's ECL calculator (not really, it's more like a formula ... you have to do the pen and paperwork)

... or with your DM come up with subrace for that illithid, or maybe an immature one or mutated, not fully developed one (check out the Dungeon and Dorks characters to see an example).

at 5th lvl your options are kinda limited

ECL + 18!!! That is insane. THanks for the info though.

 

[gnfnrf]

Soldarin's formula pegs a mind flayer at +10 ECL, though it may under-rate the usefullness of psionic abilities.

At fifth level, anything remotely resembling the MM mind flayer will vastly overpower the rest of the party. Your only option is to completely rewrite the mind flayer to be significantly weaker, which would require extensive consultation with your DM.

--
gnfnrf

 

[jontherev]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20011208a

Here they have 3 different illithid/monks, one at CR10 as a 8/2 illithid monk. Did they screw this up?

 

[Jairami]

Just off the top of my head, I'd say it's going to be extremely hard to play a sorcerer based mindflayer. Your abilities, especially mindblast and charm monster will always be useful but they will be about all you will ever be able to do because your sorcerer caster level will always be so far below party level. At 15th level when the cleric in your party is casting 8th spells of doom, you, with ECL +8-+10 will be capable of web and glitterdust (and the mindblast and other mindflayer abilities you've always had). At the +18 that the new WotC YOU-MUST-NOT-PLAY-MONSTER-PC dragon magazine has, you can't do anything at all.

If you want to have mindflayer powers and be a sorcerer, and if I were DM, I'd let you because your caster level is going to be such that your sorcerer abilities are always going to be somewhat of a side show. Even if your ECL is only +5.

But if you want to play a character with the illithid mindset, apperance, outlook, and can handle not having the abilities (just say your abilities lie along different paths), then here is what I'd recommend.

Illithid, the PC race

ECL +1

AC: +3 Natural (ECL +0.6)

Attacks: As a humanoid, not proficient with using tentacles in combat.

Int +4, Wis +2, Cha +2 (ECL +0.4)

Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Telepathy, Darkvision 60' (ECL +0.2)

Character class determines hid die, saves, skills, and feats.

They have an affinity for consuming the brain and brain fluid of other creatures, they just never really got so good they could hold something with the strength of their tentacles and then force their beak through it's skull. These have to find more "conventional" ways to get at a creatures brain. You can't levitate, planeshift, mindblast, etc. because you were busy learning to cast spells. Of course, that's hardly common knowledge.

I'd allow this as well in my game because the first alternative (while not unbalancing) would probably tend to be no fun), the second is not any more powerful than an aasimar or bullywug.

Just offering ideas. Feel free to throw it out the window.

 

[Jairami]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20011208a

Here they have 3 different illithid/monks, one at CR10 as a 8/2 illithid monk. Did they screw this up?

Nope. That's about the right CR rating. It would be an insignificant threat to 4 10th level PC's as a 2nd level monk. Taking only about 20% of their resources to defeat. While 4 7th level PC's might have considerably more difficulty with him and even lose a member or two.

If you are asking whether a CR 10 creature can be played as a PC in a game with 10th level PC's, then you've confused what CR and ECL are.

CR is a rough estimate of how hard a creature is to defeat in combat versus a party of 4 PC's.

ECL is an even rougher estimate of how much of a penalty a special PC should play with so that the other PC's have an equal opportunity to shine in their own ways. An illithids ability to levitate is not all that likely to decide an encounter if he is a bad guy. How many times will it come in handy to a PC though? Numerous.

CR and ECL are not comparable. Both are subjective rough estimates of completely different things.

At least, that's my take on things. Soldarin's page has even more well put explanations of ECL, CR, monster player characters, and more.

 

[jontherev]

Nope. That's about the right CR rating. It would be an insignificant threat to 4 10th level PC's as a 2nd level monk. Taking only about 20% of their resources to defeat. While 4 7th level PC's might have considerably more difficulty with him and even lose a member or two.

If you are asking whether a CR 10 creature can be played as a PC in a game with 10th level PC's, then you've confused what CR and ECL are.

CR is a rough estimate of how hard a creature is to defeat in combat versus a party of 4 PC's.

ECL is an even rougher estimate of how much of a penalty a special PC should play with so that the other PC's have an equal opportunity to shine in their own ways. An illithids ability to levitate is not all that likely to decide an encounter if he is a bad guy. How many times will it come in handy to a PC though? Numerous.

CR and ECL are not comparable. Both are subjective rough estimates of completely different things.

At least, that's my take on things. Soldarin's page has even more well put explanations of ECL, CR, monster player characters, and more.

Can you tell I'm not a DM? Thanks for the info man. I'll talk to my DM and see if we can manage something.