Mind Switch:unbalancing?

[Aurio]

Greetings guys,

My question's on mindswitch. Does it involve gaining the subject's base attack bonus along with his/her psysical ability scores? If it is, isn't true mind switch (permanent) kinda unbalancing? a psion mindswitching with a fighter'd get as good a fighter a n d retain all manifesting abilities...

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm fairly certain that base attack bonus is not something that you'd get, unless it's from racial hit dice.

Basically, mind switch takes all your levels and puts them into the body of the other guy, and puts his in yours. Since base attack bonus is dependent on your level, he'd keep his, and you'd keep yours.

However, if you mind switched into something big, like a giant (not sure if you can; I don't have the book with me), you'd gain the base attack bonus of a giant, because that bonus is innate to the body.

 

[Spatula]

My question's on mindswitch. Does it involve gaining the subject's base attack bonus along with his/her psysical ability scores?

No. Mind switch basically functions like a polymorph spell.

If it is, isn't true mind switch (permanent) kinda unbalancing?

At 10,000 XP a pop (and a possible level loss if your old body dies), I wouldn't say it's unbalancing.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Now in 3.0 PSiHB when there was pretty much no cost to cast it and it was a lower level (something like 6th I think), *that* might have been considered unbalancing.

Although it seems to me that the xp cost is somewhat punitive as it stands in the XPH (considering that it is sorta "permanent/instantaneous magic jar" in functionality)

 

[Christopher Lambert]

I'm fairly certain that base attack bonus is not something that you'd get, unless it's from racial hit dice.

Basically, mind switch takes all your levels and puts them into the body of the other guy, and puts his in yours. Since base attack bonus is dependent on your level, he'd keep his, and you'd keep yours.

However, if you mind switched into something big, like a giant (not sure if you can; I don't have the book with me), you'd gain the base attack bonus of a giant, because that bonus is innate to the body.

No, you wouldn't get the giant's BAB, only your own.

Although it seems to me that the xp cost is somewhat punitive as it stands in the XPH (considering that it is sorta "permanent/instantaneous magic jar" in functionality)

A permanent magic jar would be broken. At least magic jar can be taken away, but once a Mind Switch is complete it's forever. Now, when you can hijack a pit fiend (after negating it's magical defense, of course) and effectively increase your level adjustment by more than +10 (this includes not getting to choose your physical stats and not getting the spell-like abilities) I would call it broken.

After all, with the kind of stats, natural armor and DR you can gain from a huge number of creatures in the Monster Manual... of course you have to pay for it.

 

[Spatula]

Sure, you have to pay for it, but 10k XP is pretty steep, more than half of what you need to advance to the next non-Epic level. And if the target makes its save, or you fail the PR check, you just wasted a lot of XP.

You also have to deal with the target mind being in your body - if you kill it, you lose a level on top of the XP expenditure. If not, you've got to lock it up somehow, to keep it from being harmed and to keep it from acting with your identity.

After all, with the kind of stats, natural armor and DR you can gain from a huge number of creatures in the Monster Manual...

...assuming you don't mind being stuck in those creatures' forms for the rest of your life (or until the next mind switch).

Really, greater metamorphosis is far superior (though still costly). Who wants to exchange your humanoid form for that of a giant red-skinned devil, without any of the abilities that make it special, when you can simply assume its form (and some of its powers) for a short while?

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Sure, you have to pay for it, but 10k XP is pretty steep, more than half of what you need to advance to the next non-Epic level.

Cheaper than what you're getting

And if the target makes its save, or you fail the PR check, you just wasted a lot of XP.

If you buy a new house, look inside it first.

You also have to deal with the target mind being in your body - if you kill it, you lose a level on top of the XP expenditure. If not, you've got to lock it up somehow, to keep it from being harmed and to keep it from acting with your identity.

Just kill it. If you're getting a huge LA-equivalent boost, you shouldn't mind giving up 1.5 levels. Otherwise don't use the power - the risks aren't for everyone.

...assuming you don't mind being stuck in those creatures' forms for the rest of your life (or until the next mind switch).

Including that wonderful regeneration and DR...

Really, greater metamorphosis is far superior (though still costly). Who wants to exchange your humanoid form for that of a giant red-skinned devil, without any of the abilities that make it special, when you can simply assume its form (and some of its powers) for a short while?

You get a lot of it's powers like ... regeneration and DR! Plus, it can't be negated and can only be taken away from you by someone else with a minute or ten of your time and the same power... and XP to spare.

Ever seen a wizard using shapechange get victimized by antimagic field? It's not pretty. Same thing with greater dispel magic or even that wonderfully broken Mordenkainen's disjunction.

Besides, shapechange is hardly a balanced spell (and greater metamorphosis is hardly a balanced power) so it's not really a good idea to compare it to true mind switch.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Of course, the high xp cost means that it becomes pretty much a monster/NPC only power now, since they can use it without fear of the consequences...

 

[Thanee]

Finally a decent use for Mind Fog, no?

Bye
Thanee