Alan Shutko
Explorer
Little monsters are fun. Moving around little monsters is fun. Painting little monsters is fun.
If you don't agree with that, than you wouldn't understand and that's OK.
Miniatures and Role-playing games
Little monsters are fun. Moving around little monsters is fun. Painting little monsters is fun.
If you don't agree with that, than you wouldn't understand and that's OK.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Many things are fun. Many of them cannot be done effectively at the same time. Singing is also fun, but I don't sing while I'm playing D&D. Tennis is fun, but I don't play tennis while I'm playing D&D.
What I don't see is how, given an enjoyable "theater of the mind" rpg experience, how adding miniatures (or anything else) to it makes it better.
As said before, it virtually eliminates questions of positioning.
For some groups, that doesn't matter- all the gamers are on the same page. Others? I know my group is a mixed bag. Some have no problem envisioning the game space. Others can't do that at all.
For some groups, that doesn't matter- all the gamers are on the same page. Others? I know my group is a mixed bag. Some have no problem envisioning the game space. Others can't do that at all.
Nytmare
David Jose
Not every RPG is strictly a theater of the mind. If an RPG is also a tactical miniatures wargame, it would be hard to play it without wargames, miniatures, or tactic...als.
Ahnehnois
First Post
How many questions are there, really? There's:
*Am I in range to use this ranged ability?
*Am I in range to move/charge in?
*Can I flank?
*Does doing X provoke an attack of opportunity?
*Can other characters do these things relative to me?
The initial positioning of both parties and the terrain features are all arbitrarily decided by the DM anyway. To me, all relevant questions have always been pretty easy to answer without miniatures, unless the number of participants exceeds a certain threshold. I don't see that everyone needs to visualize the space effectively, as long as the DM can.
Nytmare
David Jose
You don't see how all of those questions are answered without anyone having to ask the DM a single question, and without any possibility of arbitrary rule, if the game is being played with miniatures?
Dice4Hire
First Post
Really, you are starting to get into different RPG systems. For some, you only need to know a couple things, for others, 4E in particular, you need to know more than a couple simple things. I could play 1E or 2E pretty easily without minis, but 3.5 and 4E are not so easy. I can think of other RPGs I have played that fall on different sides of the divide also.
As for me, I prefer realia over visualization, It just adds something to the game for me, but play what you like. I would kind of prefer if you would stop asserting quite so strongly, though.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Given the choice between setting up a board with miniatures, analyzing them, and moving them around, versus simply asking the DM "can I attack from here", I don't see any advantage to the former. If anything, the absence of said miniatures makes it easier for the DM to make up details about terrain and positioning as he goes, which is, after all, his job. I don't see any advantage in this arena to making the DM's job harder and making battles take more time.
Fair enough. Very few rpgs are predicated on this kind of mapping, but there are exceptions, and the OP was not very specific.
I can, however, say from experience that I found it much easier to play both 2e and 3e without miniatures than with. It's not like I haven't used them or don't know anyone who's into miniatures. I used to use them regularly, then started playing more and more without them, realizing how much easier it was to run a game that way, and never looked back.
I don't begrudge anyone for their own style. I simply don't understand it. I place miniature wargaming on a similar level to LARPing and cosplay; something that people sometimes do and which is related to tabletop roleplaying games, but is not itself a tabletop roleplaying game. To say that miniatures detract from the rpg experience is not to say that miniatures wargaming is not its own perfectly worthwhile experience. If you want to combine hobbies, by all means go ahead.
It depends on how you use the miniatures. The two ends of the spectrum are a full-blown skirmish wargame and the minis just being used to indicate rough positions on a sheet of paper.
I can hardly recall the time before we used minis. What I _do_ remember is a session that ended in angry arguing because we didn't use minis.
Using minis can help to visualize what the GM's describing. They can become a 'crutch' when they're used in place of a description, though, when they become an end in themselves.
I can hardly recall the time before we used minis. What I _do_ remember is a session that ended in angry arguing because we didn't use minis.
Using minis can help to visualize what the GM's describing. They can become a 'crutch' when they're used in place of a description, though, when they become an end in themselves.
