Minion Criticals

[weem]

while playing today (I was running the game) I rolled a Critical Hit (natural 20) for a minion attack. Normally, damage is calculated as a max roll. However, in the case of the minions, they deal a flat damage (was 4).

So, you don't double the damage because that's not the rule, but at the same time you don't (really) do max because their damage is a flat rate - there is no max except the number itself.

I couldn't find anything in the rules, so here's the deal...

1/ Did I miss them somewhere?

2/ If not, and this is simply not covered, how would/will you handle it?

I simply went with damage as normal, effectively ruling that minions (for the time being) can not critically hit anyone.

Looking forward to your thoughts - thanks!

 

[mach1.9pants]

Minions can't crit, or more correctly, a minions crit makes no difference. IIRC that was officially stated in a thread by a WotC bod.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I think "No crits" is the official rule, but if you want them to crit I'd double the damage. The theory is that 4 (or whatever) is their "average" damage. A Minion with a 4 damage is really rolling d8, but you don't roll the d8 to save a step. Instead you take "average damage" on most attacks and "full damage" on the crit.

 

[Kraydak]

Note that there are some abilities that trigger off of other people's crits, both allies' and enemies'. Minion crits therefore do have (some) meaning, but not directly boosted damage (unless you give them special gear, of course...).

 

[Kitirat]

Note that there are some abilities that trigger off of other people's crits, both allies' and enemies'. Minion crits therefore do have (some) meaning, but not directly boosted damage (unless you give them special gear, of course...).

There are actually a number of minions I have seen thus far which do extra damage on a critical. HOWEVER, they specifically list they do.

Do you really want your popcorn guy to take down a player with a critical?

See ya,
Ken

 

[KarinsDad]

Do you really want your popcorn guy to take down a player with a critical?

If he rolls a 20 and the PC is heavily bloodied, yes.

Enemies are enemies. Enemies should not be sissies. That's not a challenge.

 

[Stalker0]

If he rolls a 20 and the PC is heavily bloodied, yes.

Enemies are enemies. Enemies should not be sissies. That's not a challenge.

Minions aren't sissies in the realm of offense. While they die in one hit, there's defenses aren't crappy, there attack bonuses are decent and in groups that 4 damage a hit can add up very quickly, moreso if there with creatures that get group bonuses.

 

[KarinsDad]

Minions aren't sissies in the realm of offense. While they die in one hit, there's defenses aren't crappy, there attack bonuses are decent and in groups that 4 damage a hit can add up very quickly, moreso if there with creatures that get group bonuses.

But, they are sissies overall. At higher levels when PCs start getting to attack more than one opponent per round (and even at low level with Fighter Cleave or Ranger multi-attack At Will powers), it becomes pretty much a no brainer to have multiple PCs blow off a per Encounter power to wipe out several or many of the Minions.

Yawn.

 

[Xect]

But, they are sissies overall. At higher levels when PCs start getting to attack more than one opponent per round (and even at low level with Fighter Cleave or Ranger multi-attack At Will powers), it becomes pretty much a no brainer to have multiple PCs blow off a per Encounter power to wipe out several or many of the Minions.

Isn't that sort of the point though? To force the PCs to waste time and powers on the little guy, and to give them some use for their cool powers-that-go- boom.

I thought that was what minions where for. If they posed a significant treat on their own, they'd hardly be minions.

 

[KarinsDad]

Isn't that sort of the point though? To force the PCs to waste time and powers on the little guy, and to give them some use for their cool powers-that-go- boom.

I thought that was what minions where for. If they posed a significant treat on their own, they'd hardly be minions.

One cannot have it both ways.

Either they are a significant threat, or they are not.

The game system set them up as a significant threat by giving them good AC and decent attacks. This forces them to be a threat that players must handle at some point in a combat.

But by high level, a few area effect Per Encounter powers take them out. At that point, they are no longer a significant threat. At high level, they are a minor obstacle no different then getting the PCs through a doorway choke point to attack the enemies beyond. Plus, a PC doing an area effect on the Minions is most likely catching non-minions in his area powers as well, so it's not just like he's doing it only for them.

Sure, at first level they are still a threat because the Wizard only has one Per Encounter power and few other classes have area powers.

But at high level, they are no longer a threat. Most spell casters have damaging Burst or Blast or even Close Burst Per Encounter powers that affect multiple foes. The game mechanic falls apart at higher levels.

They become a cliche at high level. But at low level, they are a significant threat.

The game mechanic of one hit point is convenient for ease of play, but it doesn't work later on at higher levels. Sure, at high level the Minions have cool powers that can hinder the PCs. But, a minion fight pretty much becomes the same old boring fights.

1) Sanitize Minions with Per Encounter area powers in the first few rounds.
2) Concentrate on non-Minions.
3) Rinse and repeat.