Minion Fist Fights

[hong]

You know why, once a game of Monopoly is over, I don't think about it anymore and why I don't imagine myself as a little scottie dog running around a square version of Atlantic City?

Hmm. Are you implying that once a D&D session is over, you still imagine yourself as a cute little elf running around Greyhawk? That's WEIRD, mang.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hmm. Are you implying that once a D&D session is over, you still imagine yourself as a cute little elf running around Greyhawk? That's WEIRD, mang.

Going from his name, I don't think he is imagining himself as a cute little elf...

 

[Korgoth]

Hmm. Are you implying that once a D&D session is over, you still imagine yourself as a cute little elf running around Greyhawk? That's WEIRD, mang.

No. What I mean is, I don't care about the world if it doesn't make at least a tiny, itty bitty iota of sense. If it is some Bizzaro World version of Unbreakable where the vast majority of people have never been cut by knife a or been brained by a mop handle (because they would EXPLODE if they did), whereas I who have actually survived falling in the shower AM THEREFORE THE STUFF OF LEGEND... then I guess I just don't give two craps about the world.

I mean, if you can't "get into it" at all... to what extent does it actually constitute "fantasy"?

@pemerton

"Gamist", "Narrativist" and "Simulationist" are false categories. I can scarcely utter a single intelligible sentence about the Forge without needing to go to confession and/or being permabanned from this board. I actually start seething with anger and revulsion when I think about the Forge. So I'm not going to discuss it with you. I do hope that you have fun with whatever gaming you and your buddies are doing. But I view the Forge (rightly or wrongly) as an attempt to destroy non-Forge gaming by hijacking discussions about gaming with loaded terms and categories. Whether this attempt is conscious or not doesn't even matter from my perspective.

 

[LostSoul]

No. What I mean is, I don't care about the world if it doesn't make at least a tiny, itty bitty iota of sense.

Why can't you describe the world in a way so that it makes sense to you?

 

[Vendark]

Consider this. In 3x you have the ancient red wyrm. One of the most powerful creatures ever to walk the world. It can destroy buildings with its might claws.

It comes across...a lonely peasant.

The dragon wouldn't even have to attack to kill this pathetic creature, he could literally just lay his hand down upon him and crush the mortal as a human would crush an ant with its finger.

And yet, if he rolls a 1, the lonely peasant takes 0 damage from the dragon. 0, from a near godlike creature.

In 3.X, the dragon's claw also misses on a 1 and does no damage. That's why, in either edition, it's best just to narrate situations like this rather than wasting time seeing how many rounds it takes a foregone conclusion to conclude.

 

[Korgoth]

Why can't you describe the world in a way so that it makes sense to you?

Maybe because I'm not smart enough. Or wearing blinders. But the problem is that I can't seem to think consistently of a world where the vast majority of people die from a cut.

Sure, the world is full of punks... guys with more stones than brains. Guys who forget to dodge. I'm fine with that. But even a punk can surive being stabbed or cut sometimes. In 4E, the average person dies from a cut. That's Bizzaro World.

 

[Vendark]

Sure, the world is full of punks... guys with more stones than brains. Guys who forget to dodge. I'm fine with that. But even a punk can surive being stabbed or cut sometimes. In 4E, the average person dies from a cut. That's Bizzaro World.

The point is, the average person isn't a minion. Minions are something PCs fight.

If an average person decides to fight the PCs for some reason, he may become a minion, and die in one hit...but then he's not just dying from a mere cut, he's dying from a longsword/arrow/magic missile swung/shot/cast by a genuine hero.

But if it aids your perspective, assume that minions that go down are just out of the fight. The average person doesn't keep fighting after being stabbed or shot, even if it is non-lethal. When the fight is over, roll d4 or d6 or d10 to see how many minions are still alive and can be saved or questioned.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

If it is some Bizzaro World version of Unbreakable where the vast majority of people have never been cut by knife a or been brained by a mop handle (because they would EXPLODE if they did),

Those aren't represented by hit points. They never have been represented well by hit points.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The point is, the average person isn't a minion. Minions are something PCs fight.

It's weird that I mr hat of siulation is fighting against you forgist narrative yahoos for the middle ground now.

 

[Korgoth]

This whole "'Minion' means a relationship to the PCs thing" is a total red herring. Minions can fight minions, like when the town guard minions fight the orc warrior minions.

Those aren't represented by hit points. They never have been represented well by hit points.

So if you're cut by a knife in a bar fight, does that do 1 HP of damage or doesn't it?

If it does, then most people flop over dead when it happens. If it doesn't, then that means that you are cut open and bleeding on a "miss".